Exhaust Upgrade

[turbodoug]

I just got my 03 996TT X50 back from the tuner. Diverter valves, headers, AWE exhaust and Giac.

2000 to 2900ish rpm and my teeth are rattling out of my head! I specifically went AWE because they say on the website, "No drone guaranteed". The tuner, of course, thinks this is normal.

The tuner called AWE and they said, "run it for 1500 miles and all will be good".

Has anyone had any experience with this? Is there a better solution like perhaps Tubi or Fabspeed or....?

Thanks in advance.

[wross996TT]

The tuner called AWE and they said, "run it for 1500 miles and all will be good".

Has anyone had any experience with this? Is there a better solution like perhaps Tubi or Fabspeed or....?

After 1500 miles you will be deaf....? Europipes are the best!

[Beecher]

I have a Fabspeed on my 2003 TT and it drones! 2200 rpm is loud inside the car. I love it, but lots of people don't.

[turbodoug]

The tuner called AWE and they said, "run it for 1500 miles and all will be good".

Has anyone had any experience with this? Is there a better solution like perhaps Tubi or Fabspeed or....?

After 1500 miles you will be deaf....? Europipes are the best!

I feared as much.....my fault for not doing the research. After 1500 miles, there is no way they are going to exchange it for something else, so I guess I start the fight, sorry, negotiation now. I suppose it shouldn't be a surprise that when they remove 28 lbs of material from a muffler, there must be a trade off. I can't believe Porsche would leave that weight saving on the table if it were as easy as this. Less weight = fewer intricacies inside the muffler like baffles and choke tubes to deal with resonances.

Thanks for the info.

[smistry007]

The tuner called AWE and they said, "run it for 1500 miles and all will be good".

Has anyone had any experience with this? Is there a better solution like perhaps Tubi or Fabspeed or....?

After 1500 miles you will be deaf....? Europipes are the best!

I feared as much.....my fault for not doing the research. After 1500 miles, there is no way they are going to exchange it for something else, so I guess I start the fight, sorry, negotiation now. I suppose it shouldn't be a surprise that when they remove 28 lbs of material from a muffler, there must be a trade off. I can't believe Porsche would leave that weight saving on the table if it were as easy as this. Less weight = fewer intricacies inside the muffler like baffles and choke tubes to deal with resonances.

Thanks for the info.

I tried the Fabspeed but was disappointed with the drone. I currently have Remus and am very happy with the sound and lack of drone.

[Guest zaitster]

Yeap FabSpeed drones like crazy, if you are ready to sacrifice some weight saving, get this : http://www.remusexhaustshop.com/porsche-tu...1506-p-975.html

[Chuck Jones]

You spent a lot of money on aftermarket upgrades....I hope you have a flash that can be reversed.....especially if something goes wrong with the car. I've read on Rennlist that Porsche will void your CPO warranty if they can even remotely connect an engine problem to the flash. I'd bet that a dealership will run your DME right off the bat and if they spot the flash...that can be grounds for denial. I'm waiting for my CPO warranty to expire before I do any upgrades.

[fastboydave]

Yep, here in UK any none original Porsche parts that are used on your car they will use as an excuse not to honour the warrantee. I continue the warrantee each year and would rather have that (and no 'upgrades') than having a bill for a new engine (for example).

[roadsterdoc]

Before you let these guys freak you out, remember that the 996TT is very reliable even with upgrades. I do not know anyone who has not flashed their ecu. With your current exhaust troubles, these last two posts would make you think that you have made a huge mistake. You haven't.

The AWE exhaust will buzz like hell (as will any exhaust) if the straps are not tight enough. Get under the car and tighten them as tight as you reasonably can (or have your tuner do it). The straps will not break. If that does not make a difference, call AWE directly and explain your problem. Actually, you should call them first. AWE is very good when it comes to customer service. Keep us posted!

Edited October 10, 2007 by roadsterdoc

[Chuck Jones]

Roadster: I dont' think either of us were trying to use scare tactics or dissuade the guy from modding his car the way he feels he wants to.....we just interjected a note of caution about the use of aftermarket parts when your car is still under CPO warranty. You are quite right when you say that the cars are well built....but there are a lot of threads here and on Rennlist where things went wrong....that happens with the best of engineering.....and it's the times when things go wrong that you have to deal with. I can't see why I would want to jeopardize my CPO warranty or put myself in the position of having to fight it out with either the dealership or Porsche over an aftermarket part......those fights are nothing more than self inflicted gunshot wounds.

If you want to mod...go for it. Just remember that there's a downside. 700 HP is fantastic...but it comes at the potential price of less longevity out of your engine. A plenum is an attractive mod....but it comes at the price of potentially being denied by Porsche if somehthing even remotely associated with the plenum goes wrong. The warranty guys are nothing more than insurance companies....all looking for a reason to reduce their liability.

[turbodoug]

Thanks for all of the feedback.

I have put about 1800 miles on the car and as expected the drone has not improved. It did change though. I now have a nasty eardrum ripper at 3200 rpm. I presume this is due to the straps loosening up. Cruising on the highway I strive to keep the car at 3000 which is the sweet spot between the resonance at 2600-2800 and the bad one at 3200. Quite disappointing.

The tuner hasn't called me back so I will go to AWE directly. I'll let you know what they say. I will also have a look at the straps and see if I can tighten them up.

Thanks for the tip on Remus too.

As for the warranty issues, my warranty expired in July so I'm on the hook now regardless. It cost me $200 to have a twig removed that was caught in the fan motor..... Oh well....

[smistry007]

Thanks for all of the feedback.

I have put about 1800 miles on the car and as expected the drone has not improved. It did change though. I now have a nasty eardrum ripper at 3200 rpm. I presume this is due to the straps loosening up. Cruising on the highway I strive to keep the car at 3000 which is the sweet spot between the resonance at 2600-2800 and the bad one at 3200. Quite disappointing.

The tuner hasn't called me back so I will go to AWE directly. I'll let you know what they say. I will also have a look at the straps and see if I can tighten them up.

Thanks for the tip on Remus too.

As for the warranty issues, my warranty expired in July so I'm on the hook now regardless. It cost me $200 to have a twig removed that was caught in the fan motor..... Oh well....

an aftermarket exhaust should be enjoyable both from a performance as well as aural stand point. If your ears are being ripped and you have to keep the car in the sweet spot, I'd just swap back to stock or sell the current exhuast on Ebay and buy another brand.....

[mmmmm]

I will try to avoid this exhaust. Thanks

[Chuck Jones]

Today I installed the Europipe Stage 1 exhaust system on the 02 X50 and I have to say that the sound is exactly what I wanted. You can tell there's an upgraded exhaust there, but it's not obnoxiously loud....however as you hit 4000 to 6000 rpms, it opens up very nicely. Since it has 100 cell cats, the turbos spool up quicker and the back pressure has been reduced considerably, but there's no CEL's thrown at all...and absolutely no drone at any rpm. I bought the system off another Rennlister who wanted to mod his Porsche to 700 and the Stage 1 is limited to 600 HP. I'm content to stay where I am and enjoy the wonderful sound of a great system. The downside of Europipe is the cost, but I couldn't be more pleased.

If you go to the Europipe website, it has all the db ratings from inside and outside measured at various rpms, and compared to the stock systems....so it gives you a fairly accurate way to judge the sound levels.

[Harold 348]

Today I installed the Europipe Stage 1 exhaust system on the 02 X50 and I have to say that the sound is exactly what I wanted. You can tell there's an upgraded exhaust there, but it's not obnoxiously loud....however as you hit 4000 to 6000 rpms, it opens up very nicely. Since it has 100 cell cats, the turbos spool up quicker and the back pressure has been reduced considerably, but there's no CEL's thrown at all...and absolutely no drone at any rpm. I bought the system off another Rennlister who wanted to mod his Porsche to 700 and the Stage 1 is limited to 600 HP. I'm content to stay where I am and enjoy the wonderful sound of a great system. The downside of Europipe is the cost, but I couldn't be more pleased.

If you go to the Europipe website, it has all the db ratings from inside and outside measured at various rpms, and compared to the stock systems....so it gives you a fairly accurate way to judge the sound levels.

I currently run the Fabspeed on my tiptronic TT and the drone absolutely kills me. Have a friend with a tiptronic TT that has installed the Europipes.

Strangely he apparently still encounters drone with the pipes (though I have yet to sit in his car and see what his idea of drone is), and when he contacted Europipes they said that it might have something to do with the fact that he is running it on a tiptronic. I find that slightly strange though. In any case, thanks for the info, will look into the Europipes more seriously now.

Edited November 5, 2007 by Harold 348

[turbodoug]

Today I installed the Europipe Stage 1 exhaust system on the 02 X50 and I have to say that the sound is exactly what I wanted. You can tell there's an upgraded exhaust there, but it's not obnoxiously loud....however as you hit 4000 to 6000 rpms, it opens up very nicely. Since it has 100 cell cats, the turbos spool up quicker and the back pressure has been reduced considerably, but there's no CEL's thrown at all...and absolutely no drone at any rpm. I bought the system off another Rennlister who wanted to mod his Porsche to 700 and the Stage 1 is limited to 600 HP. I'm content to stay where I am and enjoy the wonderful sound of a great system. The downside of Europipe is the cost, but I couldn't be more pleased.

If you go to the Europipe website, it has all the db ratings from inside and outside measured at various rpms, and compared to the stock systems....so it gives you a fairly accurate way to judge the sound levels.

Thanks for the info Chuck. I am fine with it howling above 4000 RPM when I am in thrash mode. Thats what makes me grit my teeth and smile from ear to ear, but for cruising, this is not acceptable. I will check into Europipe as well. I can't find a picture let alone any cabin dB info for the Remus exhaust on their website. All it shows is the tips. I have not contacted AWE yet.

BTW, I saw a picture of your 02 with the new wheels. Very nice. Are they cast or fordged? I too have the factory Aerokit on my 03 in seal grey. I went with BBS RS-GT's with Bridgestone RE050 Pole positions. What a difference compared to the stock Pirellis.

I washed the car on Saturday, I awoke Sunday to 2" of snow. Weather's supposed to heal up mid week, but I am running out of time this year.

[Chuck Jones]

Doug: the wheels are CCW and are forged out of a single block of aircraft aluminum....beautiful work and the price was only $2600 for the set. That puts them substantially below the other high end sets that usually run in the $4-6K range. If you go to the CCW site, take a look a their product line and I'm sure you can read the ensorsements from other folks. They did a lot of sales to the Corvette crowd....and are now breaking into the Porsche folks. Mine are the T-10's.

For the money, I don't think you can beat them. I can't answer the question about their track-ability.....but I wouldn't want to track a beautiful set of wheels like this anyway....I'd put the stock twists back on and run those.

[Guest zaitster]

Remus has never really released a lot of pics for their products....their reputation is really based on forums like these, I asked over on 6speed and they think Remus is very quiet yet provides great performance.

I'd contact Remus directly, as forum members we can only know so much..

[Chuck Jones]

You might try Alex at SharkWerks.....I think he's seen the product line...and he may have installed some IIRC....not 100% sure, but give it a try. I looked into them early on when I was on the hunt for a nice exhaust system...I know another model of their line is the Romulus....to wit: Romulus and Remus. I ended up with Europipe....top quality stuff.

Also try a search on Rennlist. I recall seeing a discussion thread about the product.

[Guest zaitster]

How can a retailer know more about a product than the own manufacturer?

Your best bet is really to contact Remus directly.

[ard.]

Today I installed the Europipe Stage 1 exhaust system on the 02 X50 and I have to say that the sound is exactly what I wanted. You can tell there's an upgraded exhaust there, but it's not obnoxiously loud....however as you hit 4000 to 6000 rpms, it opens up very nicely. Since it has 100 cell cats, the turbos spool up quicker and the back pressure has been reduced considerably, but there's no CEL's thrown at all...and absolutely no drone at any rpm. I bought the system off another Rennlister who wanted to mod his Porsche to 700 and the Stage 1 is limited to 600 HP. I'm content to stay where I am and enjoy the wonderful sound of a great system. The downside of Europipe is the cost, but I couldn't be more pleased.

If you go to the Europipe website, it has all the db ratings from inside and outside measured at various rpms, and compared to the stock systems....so it gives you a fairly accurate way to judge the sound levels.

You do realize that the lower back pressure and faster spool with the EP is **tehcnically** a mod that can lead to Porsche denying a engine faulire related claim. Technically they would be correct.

[wross996TT]

You do realize that the lower back pressure and faster spool with the EP is **tehcnically** a mod that can lead to Porsche denying a engine faulire related claim. Technically they would be correct.

Really, and where do you get your information from?

[Chuck Jones]

I guess that there's always a "technicality" that would give grounds for Porsche, a dealership..... or any insurance company to try to deny coverage....however in the language I've read, it becomes incuimbent upon Porsche to demonstrate that the modification has a nexus to the failure and can be directly attributable to that failure. The only thing the Europipe would do would be to allow the turbos to spool faster....not exceed the rev limiter, but just to spool faster....so the fail safe mechanism built into the rev limiter is still there.

Insurance companies use this tact all the time when trying to mitigate their vulnerability....they use the "but for" approach in their effort to wriggle out of financial responsiblity.

[DropHit]

3 companies make the right exhaust for this car based on acustic designs,

Europipe

Milltek

Ruff

Anything else is simply mandrell bent piping with hollow mufflers.

I have run 7 diff exhaust setups on our 650 hp 01 996 and frankly those 3 are the only ones with a good sounding porsche style note, the rest sound like outboard motors at best.

All of them flow about hte same and on stock apps wpnt matter either way, sound will be the real tale.

Z

I just got my 03 996TT X50 back from the tuner. Diverter valves, headers, AWE exhaust and Giac.

2000 to 2900ish rpm and my teeth are rattling out of my head! I specifically went AWE because they say on the website, "No drone guaranteed". The tuner, of course, thinks this is normal.

The tuner called AWE and they said, "run it for 1500 miles and all will be good".

Has anyone had any experience with this? Is there a better solution like perhaps Tubi or Fabspeed or....?

Thanks in advance.

[wross996TT]

3 companies make the right exhaust for this car based on acustic designs,

Europipe

Milltek

Ruff

That would be RUF.