Carrera 4 Vs Carrera 2

[porsche911carrera4]

I own a Carrera 4 99 model and was wondering what other peoples opinions are on this. I have never driven a C2 and was wondering what people have thought about the differences. I want to upgrade to a 2002 with the newer headlights and more horses but I do not know if I can stomach the C4S price tag. Just wondering what people thought about regular C4 versus C2 because I know the wide body of the C4S is virtually a totally different car?

Other things also to note, does the 4wd make me look as though I am not a real drivers driver? I know the GT3 is the supreme Porsche, none of the PSM or anything else just wanted to know peoples views on this.

One last thing can a C2 do slides easier than a C2, also I think the 2002 C2 Cabriolet is the only 4WD none Widebody with the newer headlights is that right?

I wish they made a C4 with the newer headlights!

Another quick question, is the extra money worth 4WD, I just really love driving fast in the rain, but I would never take my baby in the snow unless it was fresh with no sand or salt!

Thanks these forums are addictive!!

[alter_schwede]

Base prices in Euro:

C2 = 74.504,-

C4 = 80.304,-

C2 Cabrio = 84.480,-

C4 Cabrio = 90.280,-

IMHO: I don't think the C4 Cabrio is worth to buy, cause for that money you can get the C4S (€89.816,-), and for what reason are you gona do with AWD in the Cabrio unless you have lots money and don't know what to do with it.

C4 handle almost like a C2 in normal drive condition (5% front and 95% rear) and when it becomes critical the PSM will devide the power automaticaly to 40% Front and 60% Rear, the PSM is standard by C4 and for C2 it's an option (€997,-.).

With no doubts the C4 has better traction than the C2 due to the AWD, with or without PSM On. There shouldn't be much different to do power slides in the C4 wth PSM Off than the C2, with PSM On, the PSM has sensors on all four wheels and breaks when necessary.

And what I have heard the C4 intend more Under-stear than the C2, maybe that's the reason most track drivers wants a C2 cause it is more to the Over-stearing.

The question driving fast in Rain, even the best electronic and AWD is not gona save your life or the car if you to fast in the Rain with bad tires.

But with no doubt is a C4 great combination of sport and safety but never underestimate your own drive ability in high-speed in bad weather condition, it's just to many unsure factors, you only have one Life.

cheers,

Tony

[porsche911carrera4]

Thanks for the response. I am leaning towards a 2002 C2. I can sell my C4 for pretty good money and get a newer looking C2 with minimal extra expense. Thanks for your insight on the Cabriolet's I was leaning towards them but the curves just are not as nice as a Coupe, plus the prices are outrageous.

C4S is really nice but I have yet to see a used one drop below $75,000. Also I think the widebody again takes away from the curves of the C2 which looks lower, and sleeker, however I love the C4S frontbumper which looks awesome.

I was speaking with a guy and he told me with PSM the C2 is basically the C4, because the PSM will move the front tires the same way a C4 does. I think thats what you were saying but I was just wanting to clarify it. Does that mean if lets say were in 5 inches of snow with PSM on both cars will move the same way? Thanks

Thanks!

[ADias]

... I was speaking with a guy and he told me with PSM the C2 is basically the C4, because the PSM will move the front tires the same way a C4 does.  I think thats what you were saying but I was just wanting to clarify it.  Does that mean if lets say were in 5 inches of snow with PSM on both cars will move the same way?  ...

The C2 w/ PSM is not the equivalent of a C4. The C4 is a 4WD car, the C2 is not. The C4 normally sends 5% of its power to the front and a maximum of 40% (in low rear traction conditions). A C2 w/ PSM does not do that.

I have a 2000 C4 and love it. I think its design makes absolute sense - it adds AWD w/ minimal weight added - the C4 is lighter than a C2 cabrio. I do not favor the C4s - I think it is an overweight C4 without added benefits. Paul Frere says the C4s is "a lot of show and no go" - I agree.

[alter_schwede]

but don't forget on the C4S there are lots of TT parts in it, and that alone cost a fortune on aftermarket to get!

"a lot of show and no go" - to a certain sense that right, e.g. top speed is 5km less than the normal C4, cause by the widebody.

but that is a great looking car, IMO!

cheers,

Tony

Edited March 16, 2004 by alter_schwede

[porsche911carrera4]

Wait wait, so what exactly does PSM do on a C2 in terms of power distribution?

What does a C4 do in terms of power distribution? Front and Rear Wheels in let say no traction conditions.

[earlyapex]

Nothing works in zero traction situations! Your tires must be in contact with the road surface to affect the direction of your travel, accelerate or decelerate your car. A hydroplaning car is the perfect example.

AWD vehicles get the engines power to the ground via 4 tires and often come with sophisticated systems that modulate the power between the different wheels. My wife's Audi has the wonderful Quattro system and it was much better in the snows of Colorado than our Jeep Grand Cherokee with Quadra Drive. AWD doesn't help you brake. That's what ABS and stability systems are for.

From the Porsche web site:

"Extra Driving Safety All-Round

The new 911 Carrera 4 is the first-ever Porsche to feature Porsche Stability Management (PSM), a combination of four-wheel drive designed consistently for sports motoring and electronic suspension control carefully geared to the character of the car. The result is not only a high standard of driving safety, but also that very special driving pleasure Porsche drivers have learnt to appreciate so much over the last 50 years.

This objective calls for control and suspension management features different from those to be found in other cars incorporating similar systems. For PSM is conceived and designed for a routined, committed style of motoring. A Porsche will retain its agile, sporting and dynamic driving behaviour all the way to the most extreme limit. And thanks to the high standard of safety reserves offered by the suspension, the driver only has to intervene in the car's behaviour on dry roads when driving under near-racing conditions. At the same time PSM discreetly and almost unnoticeably corrects any minor deviations in directional stability attributable to load change or application of the brakes in a bend.

Stopping Distances Even Shorter Than Before

Porsche's engineers allow PSM to intervene more energetically at an even earlier point on wet or slippery roads and, in particular, on road surfaces with varying frictional coefficients. And it is here, too, that PSM makes stopping distances much shorter while keeping the car stable and firmly on course when applying the brakes.

In its operation PSM follows two fundamental control strategies: First, it offers the well-known concept of longitudinal control with ABS anti-lock brakes, anti-spin control and the Automatic Brake Differential keeping the car smoothly on course when accelerating and applying the brakes on a straight or in bends.

Second, PSM also offers lateral or transverse control keeping the car reliably on course even when subject to substantial lateral forces in a bend. The corrections required for this purpose are provided by the specific, carefully controlled application of the brakes.

Any tendency to oversteer with the rear end of the car swerving round is counteracted by the exact, perfectly metered application of the brake on the outer front wheel in a bend. Understeering, in turn, is prevented by applying the brake on the rear inner wheel. Lengthwise dynamic control also comes in here to provide a supportive effect, E-Gas technology in the Carrera 4 serving to adjust the position of the throttle butterfly according to specific requirements. On the road, this means much easier and smoother steering.

To ensure precise function at all times, PSM features a whole number of monitoring units. The wheel speed sensors introduced for the first time together with ABS not only provide information on the speed of the car, acceleration and deceleration, but are also able, by considering the difference in speed from left to right, to "detect" bends and their radius. Further units are the steering angle sensor, a lateral acceleration sensor and a yaw sensor serving to detect any drift inclination of the car.

PSM: Faster Than Even a Routined Driver

All data determined by the sensors are stored within the PSM computer, evaluated within fractions of a second and passed on as instructions to the E-Gas or brake system. As a result, PSM responds a lot faster in threatening situations than even the most routined driver.

Really enthusiastic drivers wishing to try out the "natural" dynamic behaviour of their

Carrera 4 on the race track are able to temporarily deactivate the lateral dynamic control provided by Porsche Stability Management simply by flipping a switch on the instrument panel. And even then the risk involved when taking the car into a power slide is reasonably limited, since all the driver has to do when the angle of the car becomes excessive is to step on the brakes in order to reactivate the dynamic control function. So under circumstances like this PSM is able to slightly "bend", but of course never fully override, the laws of physics."

This is a nice video link.

Champion Motorsports video

Hope this helps.

[ADias]

Wait wait, so what exactly does PSM  do on a C2 in terms of power distribution?

What does a C4 do in terms of power distribution? Front and Rear Wheels in let say no traction conditions.

Q: Wait wait, so what exactly does PSM do on a C2 in terms of power distribution?

A: PSM does not affect power distribution. On a C2 power is strictly applied to the rear wheels.

Q: What does a C4 do in terms of power distribution? Front and Rear Wheels in let say no traction conditions.

A: A C4/C4s is a an AWD car. Power is applied both to the rear and front wheels all the time. In steady state conditions only 5% of the available power is applied to the front but, dynamically, that can change up to 40%. In no traction conditions no power (or control) is applied anywhere.

See earlyapex's reply for a comprehensive description of PSM. The C4/C4S has both AWD and PSM.

Edited March 17, 2004 by ADias

[Noor]

I drove both a C2 and a C4. In my opinon C4 feels more solid then a C2. I also found C2 more louder then a C4, comparing 2000 C4 to a 2000 C2. There was this hollow sound from the front of the C2. My C4 is quite as a ***** cat.

Also C4 offers better traction then a C2 under not so ideal conditions and C4 has a standard PSM which in my opinion can save you from brink of disasters if the driver is not a experienced one. I have too many friends who have spun out there C2 with no PSM on highway 17 cruzing down from Santa Cruz to San Jose.

Also C4 will probably have a better resale value then a C2 or atleast more sellable compared to a C2 in a bad Porsche Market.

Last not the least 'Carrera 4' logo looks cool in the back:-)

[RDSII]

I went from a c4 to a c2 and I would prefer a c4.. My c4 felt more attached to the ground. But my c4 was a 94 widebody and my c2 is a 996 narrow body. Would I pay a big difference no but this is not my daily driver. I do not drive it in the snow. If this was my daily driver I would get the c4. I do not track my car and if you want to do that you may want to get feedback from someone that does that. I think the c2 is prefered on the track.

[CO996C4]

C4 all the way!!

JimD

:cheers:

[AdamB]

C2, but get the x74 suspension or at least the RoW M030 suspension.