Broken Push Rod Plastic Connector

[mustang66]

hi tool pants,

i have a 97 boxster and my passenger side red plastic connector just broke. i was able to remove the end part of the push rod with the broken plastic connector by unsrewing the single bolt.

1. you mentioned that someone makes a metal connector instead of plastic, can you tell me where to order one? i assume that's better then the plastic.

2. once i have the new connector, can i just screw it onto the old arm and snap it back on the ball? any other tricks/steps?

3. do i need to worry about timing of the transmissions when i put everything back? i did not unsnap the driver side red plastic connector for the top, just the connector for the cover. does that mean the timing is still good?

thanks in advance. my first repair on the boxster, any help is appreciated.

[Chris_in_NH]

i also have a 97 Boxster and have been thru all of this before.

1. don't buy the metal ball socket. the new Porsche push-rods (one piece that is the metal arm with the plastic connector on the end) have reinforced plastic that will not break. the reason i recommend against the metal ones is because they do not 'flex' around the ball the way that plastic will. in other words, you will get a better fit with the new plastic ones.

2. if you take my advice and buy the new push-rods with the white plastic connectors, you need to remove your existing push rod from the V-lever using an allen wrench. if you look at the connection, you can see it has a hex screw that screws the push rod into the V-lever. you just need to swap the old one for the new one, and then connect the plastic connector to the ball on the conv top where the previous one broke.

3. your transmissions may be out-of-sync with each other, but probably not by much. it depends when you stopped pushing the conv top button when the red connector broke. if you stopped immediately, then the transmissions are probably still timed correctly. you can look at the positions of the V-levers on both sides. are they in the same relative positions on both sides? if they are, then the transmissions are sync'ed with each other and you won't need to re-time them. if the V-lever positions are NOT the same on both sides, then you need to re-time them.

here's how. (other people do it differently, but i found this way is fool-proof). ;)

- disconnect the clamshell (cover) push-rods (the black canister-looking arms that raise and lower the clamshell). it sounds like you've already done this. if you've disconnected them on both sides, then you should be able to raise/lower the clamshell manually.

- disconnect the red connector on the driver's side of the car, too. you will need to pry it off the ball. you can use a screwdriver or any other tool you can pry with. (be careful, you don't want to scratch the car).

- lift the clamshell so that you have access to the V-levers. i am assuming that your conv top is 'up' or closed.

- if you need more room to work, put the top in 'service position' (unclip the two cables that hold down the rear of the conv top and swing the back of the conv top 'up' towards the front of the car).

- take both cables out of the conv top motor by the 3rd brake light. plug in passenger side cable (DO NOT PLUG IN THE DRIVER'S SIDE CABLE YET - we want to move the passenger side xmission independently of the driver's side xmission).

- push the conv top button in the 'close top' direction until the motor stops and the conv top dash light goes out. by doing this, you are moving the transmission all the way to its farthest forward position.

- (just to make sure) now unplug the passenger's side cable from the motor, and plug in the driver's side cable. do the same thing. press the conv top button until the conv top dash light goes off. now both transmissions are in the position (full forward) that they should be if your top is closed.

- after that is done, connect the (previously red) connector sockets to the conv top balls.

- then lower the clamshell by hand and then from inside the car, reach into the back and pop the clamshell push rods (black canisters) back on to the V-lever balls.

your top should now work perfectly. when you are testing it after this is all done, push the conv top button in short bursts so that you can watch/listen for problems. once you are sure that the top raises/lowers correctly, you can push (hold) the button the way you normally would.

Edited July 22, 2007 by Chris_in_NH

[mustang66]

hi chris,

thanks again for your quick reply. i will take your advise and purchase a new push rod with the new white plastic connector,

questions:

1. only the passenger side broke, can i just replace that one push rod and leave the driver side (old red plastic) alone?

2. where should i order the new push rod?

3. regarding transmissions sync: i did not disconnect the driver side push rod for the top (red connector), just the black push rod for the clam shell cover so that i can open the clam shell. my plan is as follows: after i replace the broken passenger side push rod, i can manually rotate to passenger side transmission so that the 2 push rod positions matches that of the driver side transmission (which should be in correct position since i never disconnected the red push rod on that side). at that time, i can reconnect all the connectors on both sides. then try pushing the close-roof button slowly to see if the clam shell and the roof would come up evenly on both sides. is that a good plan?

[Chris_in_NH]

1. i would replace both conv top push rods. you don't *have to*, but i think it's a good idea. if i remember correctly, they are about $40 each.

2. Sunset Imports http://www.sunsetimports.com and Suncoast Porsche http://www.suncoastporsche.com and AutoHaus AZ http://www.autohausaz.com seem to have the best prices. call around to see who has the lowest price. your local dealer will probably charge much more than these three sources.

3. yes, the driver's side should be sync'ed correctly. your plan sounds good. there is a post around here where someone used a carpenter's level to accurately determine the positions of the V-levers. the V-lever was turned (via the cable/cable motor/conv top button) so that the level could be rested upon it. when comparing the left and right sides, the level's reading provided confirmation that both V-levers were in the same relative positions on both sides and thus 'in-sync' with each other.

[mustang66]

Thanks Chris,

I ordered 2 push rods from Sunset Imports. Suncoast never returned my call and Autohaus does'nt carry those parts. They are $42 and change each, I should get them in 5-6 days. They did not ask me left or right, I assume the push rods are the same for both sides, right?

Couple of more questions in preparation for the replacement operation:

1. I don't see the broken off red plastic joint, it's not attached to the metal ball of the top mechanism and it is not on the push rod. It must have split in half and felt down somewhere. Should I try to find it? Will it cause jamming problems? I did not disconnect the driver side push rod and put the top up manually because I did not want to disturb the driver side transmission. I plan to use that to line/sync up with the passenger side, the problem side.

2. If I don't have to worry about finding the broke off piece, my plan is as follows:

a. Rotate the passenger side transmission plate manually and align the positions of the V-levers (I think that's what they are called), one for the clamshell (black shock absorber) and one for the top (new push rod with white connector), to be mirror image of the driver side transmission plate. How do I do it other then by eye, I am not sure. You mentioned someone use a level, I am not sure how a level can be used. I probably will use a tape measure to measure distances for corresponding parts on both sides or something like that.

b. Once I am satisfied with the transmission plat alignment, I will reconnect (snap in, any tricks to do that) the old black clamshell shock absorber first. I probably have to put some weight on the clamshell to keep it completely close first.

c. Then I will reconnect the new top push rod (the top is completely down).

d. Another question: If the top and the clamshell are both in the completely down/closed positions, is it not true that there is only one position the transmission's rotation can be at, so that we can reconnect the clamshell and top connectors? So, I can not really be out of sync with the undisturbed driver side transmission, right? Or am I not understanding something.

Thank you in advance to Chris and anyone else who can help me with this project so that I can enjoy my toy again. I have not been driving it because my fear of disturbing the transmission alignments, rattling of the disconnected parts, etc.

[1schoir]

Thanks Chris,

I ordered 2 push rods from Sunset Imports. Suncoast never returned my call and Autohaus does'nt carry those parts. They are $42 and change each, I should get them in 5-6 days. They did not ask me left or right, I assume the push rods are the same for both sides, right?

The push rods at first glance appear to be the same, but there is actually a difference in the part of the pushrod (the solid round metal arm) that attaches with the clip (i.e., NOT the ball/socket end). Make sure that you replace the correct part on each side.

Part #:

passenger side: 986 561 579 00

driver side : 986 561 580 00

Regards, 1schoir

[Chris_in_NH]

i believe the conv top push rods are designated Left and Right (as 1schoir mentioned), so make sure you are getting Left and Right. i would have a hard time thinking that Sunset would send you two of the same side. they're pretty knowledgeable over there. but you could call them just to make sure.

1. the broken off red plastic joint won't cause any jamming problems. if you can find it in there, that's good. but if not, it won't be an issue. as far as not removing the other side's red connector, as long as you don't press the conv top button, the transmission won't move. so you can remove the other side's red connector/push rod if you want to. just don't press the button.

2a. when you say you plan to 'manually move the transmission' i am assuming you mean using the technique that i posted above (plugging in that side's cable into the cable motor and pushing the button until you reach the position you want). to use a level to determine relative positions, see this thread. http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?s...02&hl=level

the position of the bubble in the level will tell you if the V-levers are in the same position on both sides. use the level to take a reading on the correctly timed side. note the position of the bubble in the level. then rotate the other side's transmission until the V-lever is in approximately the same position as the correctly timed side, and then use the level to see if the level's bubble position is the same bubble position as the correctly timed side.

2b. i always connect the clamshell push rods last. depending on the position of the V-levers when you are doing this, it may be easy to do the clamshell push rods first, or it may be difficult. is there any reason that you have decided that the clamshell push rods will be connected first? i suppose the order of connection doesn't really matter, as long as everything gets connected in the end.

2c. ok.

2d. yes, there is really only one V-lever position for the top/clamshell when the top is up or down. if the other side is accurately timed (which it should be) then you should be all set. you just need to get the other side's transmission/V-lever to the same position as the correctly timed side. sounds like you understand it to me. ;)

and i can't believe that i haven't mentioned this before, but HAVE YOU CHECKED YOUR CONV TOP CABLES? the most likely reason that your push rod broke is because of the cables. this is really the most important part of the whole thing. you need to look at the conv top R&R thread where you originally posted your message. http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=68

in that thread, it shows you how to check your cables for length. there should be 3/4" of an inch of drive cable sticking out the end of the black cladding/cable sheath. these drive cables plug into the conv top cable motor located by the 3rd brake light. what has probably happened is that the outside cable cladding has stretched over the inner drive cable, shortening the amount of drive cable sticking out the end and the cable motor doesn't have enough drive cable to grab on to. so you probably need to order new cables or repair the cables you have. this is what your cables should look like. measure the amount of drive cable that is sticking out the end of the cable. on your car, one cable probably has the correct length, and the side that is short is the side whose red connector broke.

Edited July 25, 2007 by Chris_in_NH

[azzar0]

Thanks Chris,

I ordered 2 push rods from Sunset Imports. Suncoast never returned my call and Autohaus does'nt carry those parts. They are $42 and change each, I should get them in 5-6 days. They did not ask me left or right, I assume the push rods are the same for both sides, right?

The push rods at first glance appear to be the same, but there is actually a difference in the part of the pushrod (the solid round metal arm) that attaches with the clip (i.e., NOT the ball/socket end). Make sure that you replace the correct part on each side.

Part #:

passenger side: 986 561 579 00

driver side : 986 561 580 00

Regards, 1schoir

I think Mustang66 was referring to the other push rods, the ones with the white ball on the end. Those are $42.41 at Sunset. I know because I just ordered two. These are the same for both sides. The other push rods (the ones that connect to the clam shell) ARE different and the part numbers provided by 1schoir are correct. Those are about $60-some dollars at Sunset, but I think Mustang needs the same ones I ordered.

[mustang66]

i apoligize for not reading all the threads and not checking the cables, etc.. i was afraid to move the top up and down after i disconnected the push rods for the top and the clamshell (except the driver side top red push rod). i was hoping to get the 2 new push rods with the white connectors, replace them and waw-la, everything will be working. maybe i am too nieve.

the push rods i ordered from sunset is $42 and change each. i really don't know what i am getting. i know the end of the push rod where the plastic connector is attached can be removed from the main part of the push rod by removing just one bolt. i actually did that already, removed that part from the passenger side, where my red connector broke. i guess i will wait for the parts to arrive and see. it's too late to call sunset, the order is enroute. if they are as good as you guys say they are, they would have asked be more questions if they did not know which part i needed. when i explained my problem, they seemed to know right away what i needed.

thanks for all the feedback. when i get the part i will let you know what i got. i probably will need more help with sync'ing the transmissions later. i was too anxious and push the button too many times after the connector broke. did'nt know better. it will be a miracle if everything works after replacing the push rods.

stay tune.

[mustang66]

hi chris,

in your last post, you stressed the importance of checking the cables (which i intent to do, after i get the top working).

you said: "on your car, one cable probably has the correct length, and the side that is short is the side whose red connector broke."

by that, you mean if the cable is too short, the motor is not turning the transmission and therefore that side of the push rod is not really pushing the top up. so how does that cause the connector to break on that side? would the top just go up "lop sided"? unless that's how the connector gets broken.

one other observation, after the connector broke, before i realized what happened and found this site, i keep pushing the up and down buttons, the transmission keep making a loud tapping noise. does that mean the cable is still working on that side? actually, after i disconnected the push rods (3 out of 4), i just wanted to see if the transmissions would turn, i push the up or down button briefly, it looks like neither transmission was turning. does that sound right? the clamshell is loose after the push rod are disconnected, i thought there might be micro switched that disable something. but i think the drive motor still goes on but i don'nt see the transmissions turning. could it be both cables broke at the same time, just after i disconnected the push rods?

thanks for your patience.

[1schoir]

i apoligize for not reading all the threads and not checking the cables, etc.. i was afraid to move the top up and down after i disconnected the push rods for the top and the clamshell (except the driver side top red push rod). i was hoping to get the 2 new push rods with the white connectors, replace them and waw-la, everything will be working. maybe i am too nieve.

the push rods i ordered from sunset is $42 and change each. i really don't know what i am getting. i know the end of the push rod where the plastic connector is attached can be removed from the main part of the push rod by removing just one bolt. i actually did that already, removed that part from the passenger side, where my red connector broke. i guess i will wait for the parts to arrive and see. it's too late to call sunset, the order is enroute. if they are as good as you guys say they are, they would have asked be more questions if they did not know which part i needed. when i explained my problem, they seemed to know right away what i needed.

thanks for all the feedback. when i get the part i will let you know what i got. i probably will need more help with sync'ing the transmissions later. i was too anxious and push the button too many times after the connector broke. did'nt know better. it will be a miracle if everything works after replacing the push rods.

stay tune.

From your original post, it sounds like you ordered and will be receiving the correct parts. Your old "plastic connectors" are in red plastic and the updated parts are made of a less brittle, and apparently more durable white plastic.

It would be less confusing if you referred to the part that has the plastic connector (red or white) on the end as the "rod arm" (which is attached at the forward end of the V-Lever) . The part which looks like a black hydraulic cylinder and is attached at the rearmost ball of the V-Lever is properly called a "pushrod".

The pushrod is attached at its other end to the arm of the clamshell (towards the rear).

The rod arm is attached at its other end to the convertible top frame (towards the front).

That being said, the part numbers that I provided in a post above is for the push rods (they run around $70 each).

The rod arms that you need cost $40-$50 each, so I am sure that you are getting the right parts.

Hope that eases your mind somewhat.

Regards, 1schoir.

[mustang66]

hi ischoir,

thanks, i just called sunset imports to double check. it is the part i need and they told me it is called the "push rod", who knows what the official name is. may be someone has a shop manual can verify. it is part # 986 561 27902, same for left & right. it has the white plastic connector at one end and the other end has one bolt that attaches to the remaining part of the arm (or whatever you call it). that is exectly the part i took out, hopefully it will be an easy job. they told me i should get the parts this coming monday. anyone else has any more tips on this problem, pls advise. i will keep checking before start. i will let you know how i make out too.

later.

[Chris_in_NH]

you said: "on your car, one cable probably has the correct length, and the side that is short is the side whose red connector broke."

by that, you mean if the cable is too short, the motor is not turning the transmission and therefore that side of the push rod is not really pushing the top up. so how does that cause the connector to break on that side? would the top just go up "lop sided"? unless that's how the connector gets broken.

ok... first off, the REASON that your conv top push rods broke (the one with the red connector) is because (at least) one of the cables is too short. that is WHY it broke. so you are NOT going to get your conv top working again unless you fix the cables first. what you will do is break the top again. that's why i STRESSED the cables. i can't believe i forgot to mention this in the beginning of this whole discussion.

as for your question above - NO, the top would not go up lop-sided. if the V-lever stops turning on one side (because the cable is too short on that side) then the other side keeps moving trying to overcome the tension applied by the non-working side. this is exactly why your red connector broke. think about it: the side that works is trying to go up. the other side is locked in place. something has to break, and it's the red connector. think of it this way: you are tightly holding the ends of a horizontal pole, one end in each hand (your hands are the red connectors). someone comes along and forces one of your hands to raise, but you are holding down the other hand as hard as you can. at some point, the the raising action will be too strong and you will have to let go (the connector breaks).

the tapping noise that you're hearing might be the conv top cable motor (by the third brake light) trying to turn the cables, but it doesn't have enough drive cable to grab on to. that was my point about the cables. or it could just be the stress on the conv top frame from one side not moving and the other side trying to move. the reason that your transmissions are not moving is because the transmission on the side that is working has moved as far as it can considering that the other side is locked down. or maybe the other cable has shortened as well. you won't know until you LOOK at the cables.

checking the cables seriously takes about 30 seconds. remove the brass clips (one on each side of cable motor) and pull the cables out of the motor (like in the picture above). measure the exposed drive cable on both sides and post back.

as far as using the 'correct' terminology, there are two sets of push-rods: one set for the conv top and one for the clamshell. as long as you specify 'conv top push rods' or 'clamshell push rods' we will understand.

this is what you ordered from Sunset Imports. it is the conv top push rod. you ordered 2 of them. notice the new reinforced white plastic connector on the end.

the Conv Top R&R thread that i mentioned in other messages above, contains almost ALL of the information you will need, so please read it thoroughly. 986host (the server that hosts the pictures) seems to be down at the moment, so right 'now' you can't see the pictures, but i imagine that it will be up again soon, so check back. you also need to be 'logged in' to Renntech to see the pics (unless they are hosted somewhere else).

what you DON'T want to do is install the new conv top push rods and then try to use the top. it will probably just break again and you'll be back at square 1.

[mustang66]

hi chris,

i replaced the push rods yesterday before i got to read your last post. the good news is everything seems to be WORKING so far. first i want to thank you and all the members for the help. here's what i did:

1. i received the 2 push rods with the white connectors from sunset imports yesterday. just like they said about 5 days. they look just like the pic chris posted. $42.91 a piece plus shipping about $8.

2. i decided to replace only the end part of the push rod, the part with the plastic connect, held on to the main part of the push rod with a single bolt. it is just being lazy and the existing main part of the push rod seems to be ok. i did not want to mess with it.

3. after replacing the passenger side broken push rod, i noticed the v-lever is completely out-of-sync with the driver side. i could not snap either (top & clamshell) connectors in.

4. i removed the passenger side cable from the motor (the square inner cable appears to be undamaged, about 1/2 inch, not 3/4 as the R&R post suggested). i attached a electric drill to the square cable that drives the passenger side transmission. tried both directions to see which way the transmission is rotating. once got the rotation correct, i ran the drill first fast then slowly to try to get the position of the v-lever to be exact mirror image of the driver side. i basically eyeballed it, going back and forth between the 2 sides. i did try to use a straight edge and a level but still basically by eye. tried my best to get them to be about the same position. at this point i re-attached the cable back on the motor.

5. i must have done a good job eyeballing because all the connectors snapped in fairly easily. here the order:

a. first the passenger side push rod for the top. the top is in completely down position. i left the single bolt loose until i snapped the connector in, then i tightened the bolt. then connected the black push rod/shock absorber for the clamshell. i had to pushed the top up & down buttons lightly to get exact position to snap in the black connector.

b. second the driver side. i left the original red top push rod on, it was never disconnected. i again pushed the up & down buttons lightly to get the black clamshell push rod connector back in place. at this point i tested the convertible top up and down a couple of times to see if everything is working and aligned. everything seemed to work fine. then i proceeded to replace the driver side original top push rod with the red connector that was still intact. that was pretty easy since i already done this before.

That was it. other then the battery went dead on me after all the testing of the top. i am driving the car today but have not keep playing with the top yet. hope everything is ok.

one thing i do noticed different is that my side windows would automatically go up after i park and turn off the car. is that a problem or is there something in the manual that would expalin that. i thought i check with you guys before i read the manual. hope i did not screw up the electrical system somehow. i am a new owner, kind of ignorant about the car. pls forgive me if it is a simple thing.

thanks again for all the help, everyone! i will come back and post a status after a while, hope its a good one.