RMS leak

[rodsnhawgs]

OK, I've followed w/ this and have hit a snag. RMS replacement fairly straightforward w/ no issues. However, when I pulled the intermediate shaft cover to replace it w/ the new style, the shaft shifted off-center under the forces of the chain tensioner(s) {see attached pic}. Without the shaft being centered in the opening, there is no way to install the new cover. I've loosened the tensioners but no luck. Do any of you have the solution? My Bentley svc manual doesn't address this issue and I can find no info on the web.

[Loren]

Well... the TSB says "Replace fastening bolts on the intermediate shaft flange. Since the intermediate shaft flange is loaded by the chain tensioners, the fastening bolts must be replaced only one at a time."

Porsche uses a special tool (9642) to postion and hold the intermediate shaft.

[rodsnhawgs]

Loren, you are my hero!! :notworthy: Once you pointed me in a direction, I was able to fab a tool which quckly did the trick. Shaft cover and seal easily installed in a matter of minutes. Hopefully this will help others. :thumbup:

[hmhaga]

I'm about to purchase a '98 Boxster....

Excuse my ignorance, but is the RMS seal a common problem on Porsche engines? Why?!

I've owned an Impreza WRX for 5 years, I've never even heard about this problem on the Subaru boxer engines. It is usually the front seal that breaks, but only at high mileage. When replacing the flywheel/clutch, I did replace the rear seal just for safety - with no special tools needed.

[Rom]

The RMS seal issue is a fairly common issue. Mine has been replaced twice already (once before I owned the car, and once after I got it - both times under warranty).

Basically the main seal that fits around the crank output shaft to seal the engine oil inside the engine starts to leak and oil ends up in your transmission bell housing. Eventually it leaks on to the floor (usually that's when you first know about it). The oil pools inside the bell housing and can damage the flywheel and clutch if not caught early-ish. Some cars never have the problem, others have it all the time. The general consensus, I believe, is that there is / was a defect in the manufacturing of the engines. Some engines have a perfectly round hole where the seal sits and others are slightly oval. This defect eventually causes the leak. Porsche have tried several seal designs to no avail. Generally, once your car has had the problem once, it will usually have it again and again (unless the engine is replaced with a non-defective engine). In reality I don't even know if Porsche know the real reason behind it - if they did you'd think they would have resolved it a long time ago. It could be their manufacturing equipment and it's just cheaper to replace the odd defective engine.

Porsche don't admit this as a common issue so no recall has been issued (and even if they did recall, they couldn't really do anything about it anyway). They generally treat this on a case-by-case basis, and have been known to honor warranties even after it has expired (sometimes replacing entire engines). I believe they generally replace the engine if the problem occurs 3 times, but I don't think that's set in stone. I've heard they are more willing to fix the seal or replace the engine after the warranty has expired to original owners, but again this is not a rule.

Porsche have only really had these problems since releasing the M96 engine (996 and Boxster) - I don't think their aircooled engines of the past had any of these issues.

It can be annoying since the seal costs pennies compared to the labor. Some people replace the seal as a preventative measure when changing the clutch, but others prefer to leave the seal alone if it isn't leaking. If you can do the work yourself then it's no big deal (shouldn't cost very much at all). If you have to take it to a dealer, I think the average cost is almost $1000 - not sure what the non-dealer cost would be, although it should be a lot less. If you need to change the clutch at the same time, it's not too bad as it can be easily done at the same time.

Despite these issues, people still buy Porsches and I'd have to say the majority of them never have a problem. Personally it doesn't bother me as I can do the work myself if it happens again.

Thanks!

Shash

Edited July 12, 2006 by Rom

[kbrandsma]

I also have a January 1997 that has never leaked from the rear main seal. It seems to be a hit or miss. Some newer cars leak and replacement motors also leak. I think there is something wrong with the M96 design. One day your crank is concentric to the seal and months later after the replacement seal has been installed and it leaks, it is not. Something is moving and until PCNA or PAG lets a mechanic take a motor apart rather ship it back on a pallet....

Peter split the cases on a Boxster and I will try to get his pictures. The new seal installer tool sets the seal farther into the crankcase housing vs. the old tool that set it flush. Time will tell if that is the fix. When I asked Peter why some replacement motors were also leaking he gave a reason, you do not know when the replacement motor was put together. The new seal started production in Feb 2000 but the new tools came out around March 2003.

To answer your question. If it has not leaked for 6 years then you are ok since it would have shown up by now. Any seal will eventually fail from normal wear however.

Peter with his new toys.

Tool Pants,

The screws on the tool look like they can be used to adjust the depth. How does that work? The inside looks like they are rounded off. Does the tool turn and ensure the RMS is positioned equally all-around?

Has anyone successfully created their own tool or found a place to purchase? Good thread, thanks for doing it.

K.Brandsma

'98 Porsche

Everett, WA

[Tool Pants]

This thread started almost 5 years ago. Guess I will have to update it one of these days with new pictures.

The screws are to secure the tool on the end of the crankshaft. The tool does not rotate. From my failing memory I think the tool changed again when the Cayenne type seal came out, the type of seal with the green plastic assembly ring.

There are aftermarket versions of this seal tool that I have seen for sale. Can't say anthing about them because I hang around the dealership, and they only use the factory tool.

[por911]

I believe tool #9699(see pic) is the latest. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Its basically 2 tools in one(press tool, and go/no go tool). :)

[RFM]

por911, it is the last version of the tool you have.

[Tool Pants]

In post #1 there is a picture of 9699 that was taken at a 2003 tech session.

This is that same 9699 tool taken at a 2005 tech session.

I still have in the back of my mind there was a change made to this tool when the Cayenne style seal came out, to accommodate the green plastic installation ring. I remember reading something....

[RFM]

If you got a pic. of the inside black tool, complete with the bolts, i will tell you. It is too difficult to explain in English for me. The black tool have a smaller diameter at the lower end for approx. 5mm than the upper end to keep the green plastic ring in place.

[Tool Pants]

I need to take some new pictures.

In the meantime, I found what I remembered.

There is a new insert, part number 9699/2 for the tool, shown as #5. Porsche calls #5 an assembly aid for the PTFE Cayenne style seal.

[RFM]

That is the new one Tool Pants, you can see the smaller diameter on the insert #5 at the end of the tool, to keep the plastic ring in possition and to lead/guide the seal in a correct way to the crankshaft.

[insite]

Well... the TSB says "Replace fastening bolts on the intermediate shaft flange. Since the intermediate shaft flange is loaded by the chain tensioners, the fastening bolts must be replaced only one at a time."

Porsche uses a special tool (9642) to postion and hold the intermediate shaft.

in my mind, this is the procedure here:

untension timing chains

remove IMS flange

install IMS flange to IMS

use special tool to jack ims flange to proper location

install IMS flange bolts

is this correct?

[por911]

por911, it is the last version of the tool you have.

My guess is yes, prod. date 08/2006. I believe that is late enough for the last iteration of it. :)