98 Top Stuck in UP position

[azzar0]

Also, you say you have replaced all of the parts. Did you also replace the convertible top main relay and the B-pillar microswitch? Apparently, the MY 2000-2004 right (psgr) transmissions contain the microswitch that was previously in the B-pillar.

Regards, Maurice.

Hi Maurice,

I did not replace the top main relay. I also did not replace the B-pillar microswitch. Do you have a picture of this switch? How do I get to it? If it was a problem with either one of these, don't you think the light wouldn't go out at all? Right now the light does go out, but the driver's side pops... It seems more like a mechanical problem than electrical, but at this point I am willing to try anything. If you have any pictures of the top relay and the B-pillar microswitch I would appreciate it.

Update: I tried moving the top with the drill as suggested, reconnected, put everything back together, and now both sides pop. I tried to go back to the way it was before but I haven't had enough time to get it back (I did this on my lunch break). I will try later tonight to see if I can get it to where it will (sort-of) work... What a royal pain this top turns out to be! I may just rip it all out and get me a big-ol' golf umbrella to keep in the car just in case it starts raining.

Thanks again,

Azzar0.

Edited August 29, 2007 by azzar0

[1schoir]

Also, you say you have replaced all of the parts. Did you also replace the convertible top main relay and the B-pillar microswitch? Apparently, the MY 2000-2004 right (psgr) transmissions contain the microswitch that was previously in the B-pillar.

Regards, Maurice.

Hi Maurice,

I did not replace the top main relay. I also did not replace the B-pillar microswitch. Do you have a picture of this switch? How do I get to it? If it was a problem with either one of these, don't you think the light wouldn't go out at all? Right now the light does go out, but the driver's side pops... It seems more like a mechanical problem than electrical, but at this point I am willing to try anything. If you have any pictures of the top relay and the B-pillar microswitch I would appreciate it.

Update: I tried moving the top with the drill as suggested, reconnected, put everything back together, and now both sides pop. I tried to go back to the way it was before but I haven't had enough time to get it back (I did this on my lunch break). I will try later tonight to see if I can get it to where it will (sort-of) work... What a royal pain this top turns out to be! I may just rip it all out and get me a big-ol' golf umbrella to keep in the car just in case it starts raining.

Thanks again,

Azzar0.

I know how you feel about wanting to rip it all out...

The top main relay for MY97-99 is part # 986-618-111-02.

It is located at the upper part of the driver's side footwell, in a relay tray that is locate above the fuse panel. You can't miss it because it is a double relay and is much larger than all of the other relays in that tray. IIRC it's the one that is one over from the right, third row up from the bottom. (Note: the first row on the bottom has no relays plugged in to it).

The B-pillar microswitch part # is 986-613-101-02.

The B-pillar microswitch is located near the top of the carpet-covered semi-round long plastic trim panel that is just behind your left shoulder as you sit in the driver's seat. To access it easily, you must remove that piece of trim by unscrewing the phillips screw which is hidden in the pile of the carpet, about three inches from the bottom and 3/4" forward of the engine firewall. Then loosen by 2 turns (DO NOT REMOVE) the 8 mm bolt that is located (on an angle) just forward of the front driver's side carpet pad on top of the engine cover. Then you can manoeuver the piece of trim off and you will see the B-pillar microswitch near the top, just below the big plastic "knuckle" at the bottom of the B-Pillar part of the convertible top mechanism.

Here is a photo of the microswitch:

The red arrow (click on the photo to enlarge) is pointing to the small metal lever part of the microswitch. The microswitch housing is the little black plastic box just below it. (Note, in this photo, the trim panel has only been pulled aside and has not yet been removed, to give you a reference of where the microswitch is located).

As the top closes, there is a black metal arm that comes up along with the B-pillar (which is actually pivoting at that point) and that metal arm presses on the small metal lever part of the microswitch, which in turn presses on the tiny switch encased in the black plastic box. As the small metal lever is pulled forward, it presses on the switch and you can hear the relay in the footwell clicking. If that metal lever is bent out of shape, it will either trip the switch too soon or too late, but there is no adjustment possible of the relay body itself, only in the bend of the small metal lever.

As far as the likelihood that the problem is probably mechanical, I tend to agree but can't be positive because that main top relay is one complicated piece of electronics. The fact that your light still goes out is a good sign from the relay.

Since you mentioned that you spun the V-levers as I suggested and that now caused BOTH white plastic joints to pop, why not try to rotate the V-Levers a little in the opposite direction (i.e., after you get them back to your original position where only one pops, go a little further in the opposite direction than the one you first tried and see if that solves it.)

Keep us posted.

Regards, Maurice.

Edited December 15, 2009 by 1schoir

[azzar0]

I know how you feel about wanting to rip it all out...

The top main relay for MY97-99 is part # 986-618-111-02.

It is located at the upper part of the driver's side footwell, in a relay tray that is locate above the fuse panel. You can't miss it because it is a double relay and is much larger than all of the other relays in that tray. IIRC it's the one that is one over from the right, third row up from the bottom. (Note: the first row on the bottom has no relays plugged in to it).

The B-pillar microswitch part # is 986-613-101-02.

The B-pillar microswitch is located near the top of the carpet-covered semi-round long plastic trim panel that is just behind your left shoulder as you sit in the driver's seat. To access it easily, you must remove that piece of trim by unscrewing the phillips screw which is hidden in the pile of the carpet, about three inches from the bottom and 3/4" forward of the engine firewall. Then loosen by 2 turns (DO NO REMOVE) the 8 mm bolt that is located (on an angle) just forward of the front driver's side carpet pad on top of the engine cover. Then you can manoeuver the piece of trim off and you will see the B-pillar microswitch near the top, just below the big plastic "knuckle" at the bottom of the B-Pillar part of the convertible top mechanism.

Here is a photo of the microswitch:

The red arrow (click on the photo to enlarge) is pointing to the small metal lever part of the microswitch. The microswitch housing is the little black plastic box just below it. (Note, in this photo, the trim panel has only been pulled aside and has not yet been removed, to give you a reference of where the microswitch is located).

As the top closes, there is a black metal arm that comes up along with the B-pillar (which is actually pivoting at that point) and that metal arm presses on the small metal lever part of the microswitch, which in turn presses on the tiny switch encased in the black plastic box. As the small metal lever is pulled forward, it presses on the switch and you can hear the relay in the footwell clicking. If that metal lever is bent out of shape, it will either trip the switch too soon or too late, but there is no adjustment possible of the relay body itself, only in the bend of the small metal lever.

As far as the likelihood that the problem is probably mechanical, I tend to agree but can't be positive because that main top relay is one complicated piece of electronics. The fact that your light still goes out is a good sign from the relay.

Since you mentioned that you spun the V-levers as I suggested and that now caused BOTH white plastic joints to pop, why not try to rotate the V-Levers a little in the opposite direction (i.e., after you get them back to your original position where only one pops, go a little further in the opposite direction than the one you first tried and see if that solves it.)

Keep us posted.

Regards, Maurice.

Thanks for your detailed response. I saw the switch but I thought it was a seatbelt switch, seeing how it is right next to the seatbelt... I will hook everything back up and watch the leveler in action.

I spent 4 hours yesterday evening trying to figure it out and I still can't get it back to the way it was. Both sides still pop now. I took out the two pushrods and just left the clamshell connected for a semi-automatic operation, at least for the time being. I needed to get away from it and start fresh. My patience is running very thin with this project now and I don't want to do anything I might regret later.

Is this micro switch activated only when the top goes up?

The relay seems to be OK, although you never know. I'll take it out and shake it up a bit to see if it gets any better. The alternative is to knock at my neighbor's house, who also has a Boxster, and ask if I can borrow his relay... But that's creepy, I don't even know the guy!

Thanks again,

Julian.

[1schoir]

I know how you feel about wanting to rip it all out...

The top main relay for MY97-99 is part # 986-618-111-02.

It is located at the upper part of the driver's side footwell, in a relay tray that is locate above the fuse panel. You can't miss it because it is a double relay and is much larger than all of the other relays in that tray. IIRC it's the one that is one over from the right, third row up from the bottom. (Note: the first row on the bottom has no relays plugged in to it).

The B-pillar microswitch part # is 986-613-101-02.

The B-pillar microswitch is located near the top of the carpet-covered semi-round long plastic trim panel that is just behind your left shoulder as you sit in the driver's seat. To access it easily, you must remove that piece of trim by unscrewing the phillips screw which is hidden in the pile of the carpet, about three inches from the bottom and 3/4" forward of the engine firewall. Then loosen by 2 turns (DO NO REMOVE) the 8 mm bolt that is located (on an angle) just forward of the front driver's side carpet pad on top of the engine cover. Then you can manoeuver the piece of trim off and you will see the B-pillar microswitch near the top, just below the big plastic "knuckle" at the bottom of the B-Pillar part of the convertible top mechanism.

Here is a photo of the microswitch:

The red arrow (click on the photo to enlarge) is pointing to the small metal lever part of the microswitch. The microswitch housing is the little black plastic box just below it. (Note, in this photo, the trim panel has only been pulled aside and has not yet been removed, to give you a reference of where the microswitch is located).

As the top closes, there is a black metal arm that comes up along with the B-pillar (which is actually pivoting at that point) and that metal arm presses on the small metal lever part of the microswitch, which in turn presses on the tiny switch encased in the black plastic box. As the small metal lever is pulled forward, it presses on the switch and you can hear the relay in the footwell clicking. If that metal lever is bent out of shape, it will either trip the switch too soon or too late, but there is no adjustment possible of the relay body itself, only in the bend of the small metal lever.

As far as the likelihood that the problem is probably mechanical, I tend to agree but can't be positive because that main top relay is one complicated piece of electronics. The fact that your light still goes out is a good sign from the relay.

Since you mentioned that you spun the V-levers as I suggested and that now caused BOTH white plastic joints to pop, why not try to rotate the V-Levers a little in the opposite direction (i.e., after you get them back to your original position where only one pops, go a little further in the opposite direction than the one you first tried and see if that solves it.)

Keep us posted.

Regards, Maurice.

Thanks for your detailed response. I saw the switch but I thought it was a seatbelt switch, seeing how it is right next to the seatbelt... I will hook everything back up and watch the leveler in action.

I spent 4 hours yesterday evening trying to figure it out and I still can't get it back to the way it was. Both sides still pop now. I took out the two pushrods and just left the clamshell connected for a semi-automatic operation, at least for the time being. I needed to get away from it and start fresh. My patience is running very thin with this project now and I don't want to do anything I might regret later.

Is this micro switch activated only when the top goes up?

The relay seems to be OK, although you never know. I'll take it out and shake it up a bit to see if it gets any better. The alternative is to knock at my neighbor's house, who also has a Boxster, and ask if I can borrow his relay... But that's creepy, I don't even know the guy!

Thanks again,

Julian.

Julian:

The microswitch is tripped when the top reaches very close to the end of its travel when it is almost closed. Again, there is a black arm that rotates up in conjunction with the pivoting of the round bottom of the B-pillar part of the convertible top mechanism. That black arm presses on the small metal lever part of the microswitch forward and the small metal lever presses on the microswitch to trip it. If you use a small L-shaped pick or a small L-shaped allen key, you can pull the small metal lever forward until you hear the relay click in the footwell.

There were a couple of posts by Tool Pants where he said that tapping on or shaking up the relay after you remove it sometimes "fixes" it. So, definitely give that a try.

The neighbor option doesn't sound creepy, it doesn't hurt to ask. Who knows, he may have some questions about his Boxster that you can help him with. Just make sure his car is either a MY 97, 98, or 99. The later relays are different. BTW, you have to pull pretty hard to get the relay out, but there are no clips or anything else holding it in.

If you want to start from scratch again as far as the position of the V-Levers go, take a look at some recent posts I made which show where the V-levers go in relation to the "marking notches" on the housings of the transmissions. I posted a couple of photos with the V-levers drawn in. If you can't find them, let me know and I will hunt them down.

I do know that one cause of the white plastic joints popping off is that the V-levers continue to rotate past the point where everything is snug (i.e., the forward edge of the top has reached the windshield or the top is completely open and the clamshell snug up on top of it). That is why I suggested that you try to "back-off" the V-levers in one direction or the other.

Try not to get too frustrated. Look at it this way... After you resolve this problem, there is nothing you will not know about how the top operates and you never have to worry about getting stuck with your top open or closed again. Some proof of this is that you are now easily able to make it work in the semi-automatic mode, etc. , whereas you probably had no idea how it all worked before. Not necessarily a choice you would make, but sometimes these cars don't give us the choice.

Regards, Maurice.

[1schoir]

I know how you feel about wanting to rip it all out...

The top main relay for MY97-99 is part # 986-618-111-02.

It is located at the upper part of the driver's side footwell, in a relay tray that is locate above the fuse panel. You can't miss it because it is a double relay and is much larger than all of the other relays in that tray. IIRC it's the one that is one over from the right, third row up from the bottom. (Note: the first row on the bottom has no relays plugged in to it).

The B-pillar microswitch part # is 986-613-101-02.

The B-pillar microswitch is located near the top of the carpet-covered semi-round long plastic trim panel that is just behind your left shoulder as you sit in the driver's seat. To access it easily, you must remove that piece of trim by unscrewing the phillips screw which is hidden in the pile of the carpet, about three inches from the bottom and 3/4" forward of the engine firewall. Then loosen by 2 turns (DO NO REMOVE) the 8 mm bolt that is located (on an angle) just forward of the front driver's side carpet pad on top of the engine cover. Then you can manoeuver the piece of trim off and you will see the B-pillar microswitch near the top, just below the big plastic "knuckle" at the bottom of the B-Pillar part of the convertible top mechanism.

Here is a photo of the microswitch:

The red arrow (click on the photo to enlarge) is pointing to the small metal lever part of the microswitch. The microswitch housing is the little black plastic box just below it. (Note, in this photo, the trim panel has only been pulled aside and has not yet been removed, to give you a reference of where the microswitch is located).

As the top closes, there is a black metal arm that comes up along with the B-pillar (which is actually pivoting at that point) and that metal arm presses on the small metal lever part of the microswitch, which in turn presses on the tiny switch encased in the black plastic box. As the small metal lever is pulled forward, it presses on the switch and you can hear the relay in the footwell clicking. If that metal lever is bent out of shape, it will either trip the switch too soon or too late, but there is no adjustment possible of the relay body itself, only in the bend of the small metal lever.

As far as the likelihood that the problem is probably mechanical, I tend to agree but can't be positive because that main top relay is one complicated piece of electronics. The fact that your light still goes out is a good sign from the relay.

Since you mentioned that you spun the V-levers as I suggested and that now caused BOTH white plastic joints to pop, why not try to rotate the V-Levers a little in the opposite direction (i.e., after you get them back to your original position where only one pops, go a little further in the opposite direction than the one you first tried and see if that solves it.)

Keep us posted.

Regards, Maurice.

Thanks for your detailed response. I saw the switch but I thought it was a seatbelt switch, seeing how it is right next to the seatbelt... I will hook everything back up and watch the leveler in action.

I spent 4 hours yesterday evening trying to figure it out and I still can't get it back to the way it was. Both sides still pop now. I took out the two pushrods and just left the clamshell connected for a semi-automatic operation, at least for the time being. I needed to get away from it and start fresh. My patience is running very thin with this project now and I don't want to do anything I might regret later.

Is this micro switch activated only when the top goes up?

The relay seems to be OK, although you never know. I'll take it out and shake it up a bit to see if it gets any better. The alternative is to knock at my neighbor's house, who also has a Boxster, and ask if I can borrow his relay... But that's creepy, I don't even know the guy!

Thanks again,

Julian.

Julian:

The microswitch is tripped when the top reaches very close to the end of its travel when it is almost closed. Again, there is a black arm that rotates up in conjunction with the pivoting of the round bottom of the B-pillar part of the convertible top mechanism. That black arm presses on the small metal lever part of the microswitch forward and the small metal lever presses on the microswitch to trip it. If you use a small L-shaped pick or a small L-shaped allen key, you can pull the small metal lever forward until you hear the relay click in the footwell.

There were a couple of posts by Tool Pants where he said that tapping on or shaking up the relay after you remove it sometimes "fixes" it. So, definitely give that a try.

The neighbor option doesn't sound creepy, it doesn't hurt to ask. Who knows, he may have some questions about his Boxster that you can help him with. Just make sure his car is either a MY 97, 98, or 99. The later relays are different. BTW, you have to pull pretty hard to get the relay out, but there are no clips or anything else holding it in.

If you want to start from scratch again as far as the position of the V-Levers go, take a look at some recent posts I made which show where the V-levers go in relation to the "marking notches" on the housings of the transmissions. I posted a couple of photos with the V-levers drawn in. If you can't find them, let me know and I will hunt them down.

I do know that one cause of the white plastic joints popping off is that the V-levers continue to rotate past the point where everything is snug (i.e., the forward edge of the top has reached the windshield or the top is completely open and the clamshell snug up on top of it). That is why I suggested that you try to "back-off" the V-levers in one direction or the other.

Try not to get too frustrated. Look at it this way... After you resolve this problem, there is nothing you will not know about how the top operates and you never have to worry about getting stuck with your top open or closed again. Some proof of this is that you are now easily able to make it work in the semi-automatic mode, etc. , whereas you probably had no idea how it all worked before. Not necessarily a choice you would make, but sometimes these cars don't give us the choice.

Regards, Maurice.

One more thing I forgot to mention. If you look at the photo of the mircroswitch that I included in my post #27, you can see the black arm that rotates up. If you blow up the photo, you can see that black arm just behind the small metal lever that the red arrow is pointing to. Also, just to the right of the small metal lever you can see the side view of the small black screw that holds the microswitch in place.

Regards, Maurice.

[azzar0]

I looked at the switch and it appears to be functioning properly. The pushrods pop after the switch is pushed, because the clamshell is still going down at that point. The top is all the way up, but the clamshell still needs a couple of seconds to sit down fully. It is during that time that the pushrods pop.

What seems strange is that the transmissions, together with the sides they're mounted on, move. I am not sure if this is normal or not - can someone verify? When I say they move I mean they move as if the bolts weren't properly screwed in, although they are. I'm thinking it could be that the pushrods pop because the transmissions move and they cause too much pressure on the rods. If they were solid and only moved circularly, as they're supposed to, then there wouldn't be any flexibility. But that's what I don't know - are the transmissions supposed to be flexible or not? Maybe I'll take a small video to illustrate what I mean.

Thanks!

[1schoir]

I looked at the switch and it appears to be functioning properly. The pushrods pop after the switch is pushed, because the clamshell is still going down at that point. The top is all the way up, but the clamshell still needs a couple of seconds to sit down fully. It is during that time that the pushrods pop.

What seems strange is that the transmissions, together with the sides they're mounted on, move. I am not sure if this is normal or not - can someone verify? When I say they move I mean they move as if the bolts weren't properly screwed in, although they are. I'm thinking it could be that the pushrods pop because the transmissions move and they cause too much pressure on the rods. If they were solid and only moved circularly, as they're supposed to, then there wouldn't be any flexibility. But that's what I don't know - are the transmissions supposed to be flexible or not? Maybe I'll take a small video to illustrate what I mean.

Thanks!

The sides of my car (just outboard of the transmissions) do not flex while the top is operating.

Keep in mind that when "the clamshell is still going down at that point", the V-levers are still rotating and therefore are still pulling or pushing on the opposite side (where the white plastic joints) are as well.

Can you tell whether they pop off at the very end of the travel (i.e., just after the clamshell has come down into its final position)? Is that the moment when the sides "move"?

Regards, Maurice.

[azzar0]

The sides of my car (just outboard of the transmissions) do not flex while the top is operating.

Keep in mind that when "the clamshell is still going down at that point", the V-levers are still rotating and therefore are still pulling or pushing on the opposite side (where the white plastic joints) are as well.

Can you tell whether they pop off at the very end of the travel (i.e., just after the clamshell has come down into its final position)? Is that the moment when the sides "move"?

Regards, Maurice.

I will try to look and see when they pop. The sides 'move' every time the transmissions move, it seems...

This might be the problem. It seems that the transmissions don't have enough support to remain stable. I wonder if I took the car to a body shop and ask them to weld an extra-sturdy metal bar on each side to re-enforce the transmissions support? I was able to take the air intake grills off and pull down the rubber covering to see what's behind the transmissions, and it looks like there is only a thin, flat metal piece there to provide support, which clearly is not enough.

If you ever take your air intake grills off, will you pull down the rubber cover and take a look in there? I am curious to see what other cars look like as far as supporting the transmissions goes.

Thanks,

Julian.

[Tool Pants]

I am getting lost trying to follow this.

You had and old style and new style transmission. A transmission was moving. You put in two new style transmissions, and both are moving? Is that the problem?

If so, they should not move. But how do you know they move?

When you put a new style transmission in a 1997-2000 you need to replace the 3 mounting studs. The mounting studs for the old and new style are different. Are the correct studs in the car?

The studs go into sheet metal. This is a weak point with the early cars as the sheet metal was weak. In the later cars this area was reinforced. I worked on a car where the sheet metal was bent from the force of a transmission gone wild, which bent the sheet metal, and the transmission was on an angle. Are both your transmissions vertical?

[1schoir]

I am getting lost trying to follow this.

You had and old style and new style transmission. A transmission was moving. You put in two new style transmissions, and both are moving? Is that the problem?

If so, they should not move. But how do you know they move?

When you put a new style transmission in a 1997-2000 you need to replace the 3 mounting studs. The mounting studs for the old and new style are different. Are the correct studs in the car?

The studs go into sheet metal. This is a weak point with the early cars as the sheet metal was weak. In the later cars this area was reinforced. I worked on a car where the sheet metal was bent from the force of a transmission gone wild, which bent the sheet metal, and the transmission was on an angle. Are both your transmissions vertical?

Julian:

Tool Pants is correct when he says that the "mounting studs for the old and new style are different". I think that you said in an earlier post (#17) that when you bought the new style transmissions on eBay, that they also came with the cables, and bolts. The bolts are actually "spacer bolts" (part # 98656178901) and hold the later style transmissions in the same final position as the earlier transmissions. This is because the housings and mounting points are slightly different between the early and late transmissions.

Did you compare your original spacer bolts with the new ones you got from eBay and verify that they are different? If you use the early style spacer bolts with the newer style transmissions, the transmission will wobble as you won't be able to get it mounted snug. Is that what is happening?

Regards, Maurice.

[azzar0]

Hi,

ToolPants, thanks for checking out this post, your input is always welcome.

To answer your question, as well as Maurice's, yes, the mounting bolts are the new ones. You can tell just by looking at them, as the built-in spacer is about twice as thick as the old style spacers. The transmissions are screwed in as tight as they go and they don't budge if I try to move them by hand. In fact, after I installed them and I saw how bad they're wobbling when I operated the top, I thought I forgot to tighten them, so I took everything off to get back at the bolts, just to realize that they were screwed in as tight as possible.

I agree with ToolPants, it looks like the sheet metal they are connected to is not strong enough and they give in when enough pressure is placed upon them. Although both transmissions move, the passenger side is not as bad (hence that side doesn't pop as often). I hope that taking the car to a body shop and reinforcing those sides will eliminate the issue.

The transmissions seem to be vertical, at least when they are resting. When they're moving - well that's when the issue happens, and they angle up/down, left/right, depending on what forces are pulling / pushing at the time.

So now I have to find a decent body shop that can reinforce those sides.

Thank you for letting me know that the sides are NOT supposed to move and the transmissions are not supposed to be 'flexible' :)

I'll keep you posted...

Thanks,

Julian.

[1schoir]

Hi,

ToolPants, thanks for checking out this post, your input is always welcome.

To answer your question, as well as Maurice's, yes, the mounting bolts are the new ones. You can tell just by looking at them, as the built-in spacer is about twice as thick as the old style spacers. The transmissions are screwed in as tight as they go and they don't budge if I try to move them by hand. In fact, after I installed them and I saw how bad they're wobbling when I operated the top, I thought I forgot to tighten them, so I took everything off to get back at the bolts, just to realize that they were screwed in as tight as possible.

I agree with ToolPants, it looks like the sheet metal they are connected to is not strong enough and they give in when enough pressure is placed upon them. Although both transmissions move, the passenger side is not as bad (hence that side doesn't pop as often). I hope that taking the car to a body shop and reinforcing those sides will eliminate the issue.

The transmissions seem to be vertical, at least when they are resting. When they're moving - well that's when the issue happens, and they angle up/down, left/right, depending on what forces are pulling / pushing at the time.

So now I have to find a decent body shop that can reinforce those sides.

Thank you for letting me know that the sides are NOT supposed to move and the transmissions are not supposed to be 'flexible' :)

I'll keep you posted...

Thanks,

Julian.

Julian:

I know you said that the woman that you bought the car from said that she had problems with the top that she had "aligned". Is it possible that when the top malfunctioned with her, that the sheet metal supports on which the transmissions were mounted were either "torn" or "ripped" or cracked?

When you remove the air intakes and pulled back the lining, can you visually inspect that sheet metal to see if it's damaged? That might confirm that you have isolated the problem and are heading in the right direction. It is good that you confirmed that you have the correct spacer bolts and that the transmissions are tightly fastened.

Regards, Maurice.

[azzar0]

Julian:

I know you said that the woman that you bought the car from said that she had problems with the top that she had "aligned". Is it possible that when the top malfunctioned with her, that the sheet metal supports on which the transmissions were mounted were either "torn" or "ripped" or cracked?

When you remove the air intakes and pulled back the lining, can you visually inspect that sheet metal to see if it's damaged? That might confirm that you have isolated the problem and are heading in the right direction. It is good that you confirmed that you have the correct spacer bolts and that the transmissions are tightly fastened.

Regards, Maurice.

Hi Maurice,

Yup, both sides show damage, the driver's side more than the passenger side. The driver's side has cracks and holes in the sheet metal. My neighbour tried welding but his machine is not powerfull enough; besides I need to add some reinforcements to make it solid. It sounds like this might be the problem though. I will take it to a body shop and have it done right, whenever I find a good shop and the time to do it... I also want to do a full brake change (pads, rotors, flush), so I am not sure when I'll be able to get it all done. I'll be out of town for the second half of September too, so time is really a constraint here.

Thanks for your help and support with this issue,

Julian.

[Tool Pants]

Here is the car I mentioned that we worked on in my office parking lot. I think it was a 1998. The right side transmission is on a angle because the sheet metal was bent. It was on such an angle that I could not get to the top nut to remove the transmission. The other side was fine and I removed the transmission.

I had been told that the sheet metal was weak on the early cars, but I had never seen it with my own eyes. I called a mechanic I know to see how they fixed this. Well, they don't. They send a car like this to the body shop first. We have a local body shop that the dealer uses so they are use to fixing this area, but I do not know what they do.

I know the body shop because they fixed my 1997 when it got hit a few years ago. One of these days I'll stop by and see what they do to reinforce the area.

[azzar0]

Here is the car I mentioned that we worked on in my office parking lot. I think it was a 1998. The right side transmission is on a angle because the sheet metal was bent. It was on such an angle that I could not get to the top nut to remove the transmission. The other side was fine and I removed the transmission.

I had been told that the sheet metal was weak on the early cars, but I had never seen it with my own eyes. I called a mechanic I know to see how they fixed this. Well, they don't. They send a car like this to the body shop first. We have a local body shop that the dealer uses so they are use to fixing this area, but I do not know what they do.

I know the body shop because they fixed my 1997 when it got hit a few years ago. One of these days I'll stop by and see what they do to reinforce the area.

Yup, I had a little bit of a hard time getting to the top nut myself. Oh, and the other two screws were broken! This was the old transmission, before I replaced it with the new style. I hammered the sheet metal back into a more or less straight position, but it needs professional help.

It would help if you could find out what the body shop does, so that I know what to ask for. I am sure not a whole lot of body shops have dealt with this kind of issue.

Thanks,

Julian.

Edited September 2, 2007 by azzar0

[1schoir]

Here is the car I mentioned that we worked on in my office parking lot. I think it was a 1998. The right side transmission is on a angle because the sheet metal was bent. It was on such an angle that I could not get to the top nut to remove the transmission. The other side was fine and I removed the transmission.

I had been told that the sheet metal was weak on the early cars, but I had never seen it with my own eyes. I called a mechanic I know to see how they fixed this. Well, they don't. They send a car like this to the body shop first. We have a local body shop that the dealer uses so they are use to fixing this area, but I do not know what they do.

I know the body shop because they fixed my 1997 when it got hit a few years ago. One of these days I'll stop by and see what they do to reinforce the area.

Yup, I had a little bit of a hard time getting to the top nut myself. Oh, and the other two screws were broken! This was the old transmission, before I replaced it with the new style. I hammered the sheet metal back into a more or less straight position, but it needs professional help.

It would help if you could find out what the body shop does, so that I know what to ask for. I am sure not a whole lot of body shops have dealt with this kind of issue.

Thanks,

Julian.

Julian:

Glad to hear that it looks like you found the root of the problem. At the very least, getting the two sides reinforced will only help ensure a more permanent and trouble-free repair.

As far as the body shop you use, after you explain (and show them) the way the original sheet metal is cracked and has holes, any competent body shop welder will be able to reinforce that area, and it will probably end up as overkill.

I don't think that you should have to remind them, but be very sure that they are aware to disconnect the battery before any welding is performed. The electronics can fry in a split second if they don't take that precaution.

If you can take photos of the repair, it might help some people in this forum down the line.

Regards, Maurice.

[azzar0]

Julian:

Glad to hear that it looks like you found the root of the problem. At the very least, getting the two sides reinforced will only help ensure a more permanent and trouble-free repair.

As far as the body shop you use, after you explain (and show them) the way the original sheet metal is cracked and has holes, any competent body shop welder will be able to reinforce that area, and it will probably end up as overkill.

I don't think that you should have to remind them, but be very sure that they are aware to disconnect the battery before any welding is performed. The electronics can fry in a split second if they don't take that precaution.

If you can take photos of the repair, it might help some people in this forum down the line.

Regards, Maurice.

Maurice,

I went to a body shop today and the guy I talked to said he was going to contact Porsche and find out if they have a TSB out for this issue or if there is a known procedure for reinforcing the sides. He said if he can't find out anything from Porsche he'll take the car in and scratch his head and try to come up with a best procedure. He will call me tomorrow and let me know. They charge $44/hr; with no real parts cost, I think I am looking at anywhere between $150 - $350 (3 - 8 hours of work / best case - worst case scenarios). I'll keep you all posted. I don't mind spending that much (on top of the ~ $600 already spent on transmissions, push rods, cables, etc) as long as the top will work without any more problems. I would be very upset if I put $400 more into it and still be where I am now though. But we'll see...

Julian.

[1schoir]

Julian:

Glad to hear that it looks like you found the root of the problem. At the very least, getting the two sides reinforced will only help ensure a more permanent and trouble-free repair.

As far as the body shop you use, after you explain (and show them) the way the original sheet metal is cracked and has holes, any competent body shop welder will be able to reinforce that area, and it will probably end up as overkill.

I don't think that you should have to remind them, but be very sure that they are aware to disconnect the battery before any welding is performed. The electronics can fry in a split second if they don't take that precaution.

If you can take photos of the repair, it might help some people in this forum down the line.

Regards, Maurice.

Maurice,

I went to a body shop today and the guy I talked to said he was going to contact Porsche and find out if they have a TSB out for this issue or if there is a known procedure for reinforcing the sides. He said if he can't find out anything from Porsche he'll take the car in and scratch his head and try to come up with a best procedure. He will call me tomorrow and let me know. They charge $44/hr; with no real parts cost, I think I am looking at anywhere between $150 - $350 (3 - 8 hours of work / best case - worst case scenarios). I'll keep you all posted. I don't mind spending that much (on top of the ~ $600 already spent on transmissions, push rods, cables, etc) as long as the top will work without any more problems. I would be very upset if I put $400 more into it and still be where I am now though. But we'll see...

Julian.

Julian:

To the best of my knowledge, there is no TSB on this particular problem. I remember looking through all the TSB on convertible top related issues and there was nothing on this one.

Maybe your body shop guy will get lucky if the dealer can point him to whoever it is that they refer these types of job to. I'm pretty certain that a dealer would not do this kind of work themselves without some kind of a kit from Porsche.

That $44/hr rate looks pretty good to me from up here in New York.

As far as geting upset, look at it this way: There is no way that you could continue with your top with the present condition of the transmission supports, so that's definitely the best way to proceed. With any luck, that will also be the end of it.

Oh, one last thing. It would not hurt to get a "maximum" price from the body shop guy before he starts. And remember the caution about disconnecting the battery before any welding takes place.

Regards, Maurice.

[azzar0]

Julian:

To the best of my knowledge, there is no TSB on this particular problem. I remember looking through all the TSB on convertible top related issues and there was nothing on this one.

Maybe your body shop guy will get lucky if the dealer can point him to whoever it is that they refer these types of job to. I'm pretty certain that a dealer would not do this kind of work themselves without some kind of a kit from Porsche.

That $44/hr rate looks pretty good to me from up here in New York.

As far as geting upset, look at it this way: There is no way that you could continue with your top with the present condition of the transmission supports, so that's definitely the best way to proceed. With any luck, that will also be the end of it.

Oh, one last thing. It would not hurt to get a "maximum" price from the body shop guy before he starts. And remember the caution about disconnecting the battery before any welding takes place.

Regards, Maurice.

I didn't think there was an TSB on this issue either. The guy told me he'll give me a price range with a low and a high, depending on what he thinks needs to be done, etc.

Thanks for the battery reminder - I'll tell them when I drop the car off.

[1schoir]

Julian:

To the best of my knowledge, there is no TSB on this particular problem. I remember looking through all the TSB on convertible top related issues and there was nothing on this one.

Maybe your body shop guy will get lucky if the dealer can point him to whoever it is that they refer these types of job to. I'm pretty certain that a dealer would not do this kind of work themselves without some kind of a kit from Porsche.

That $44/hr rate looks pretty good to me from up here in New York.

As far as geting upset, look at it this way: There is no way that you could continue with your top with the present condition of the transmission supports, so that's definitely the best way to proceed. With any luck, that will also be the end of it.

Oh, one last thing. It would not hurt to get a "maximum" price from the body shop guy before he starts. And remember the caution about disconnecting the battery before any welding takes place.

Regards, Maurice.

I didn't think there was an TSB on this issue either. The guy told me he'll give me a price range with a low and a high, depending on what he thinks needs to be done, etc.

Thanks for the battery reminder - I'll tell them when I drop the car off.

Julian:

Sounds good.

Any possibility of taking photos of the repair for the board's future reference?

As these early Boxsters get older, I'm sure there will be others who will run into this situation and it would be invaluable to them.

Regards, Maurice.

[azzar0]

Julian:

Sounds good.

Any possibility of taking photos of the repair for the board's future reference?

As these early Boxsters get older, I'm sure there will be others who will run into this situation and it would be invaluable to them.

Regards, Maurice.

Good idea. I'll try to take pictures, at least before and after.

[azzar0]

I have to find another body shop. These guys told me it would cost me anywhere between $350 - $750, depending on how long they spend on it. The guy I spoke with told me it would take them either one day or two days. I told him I'd pay him that much if I see him physically spending 16 hours welding 2 sides on a car. ANY car, for that matter, leave alone a small car like a Boxster! Seriously, do they think that if you own a Porsche you like to give away money?!? I figured this is a 1 - 3 hours job AT MOST, and I was willing to pay no more than $300 max. I am not asking them to fix my top, I just need someone to weld and reinforce the sides. How hard can that be? If I had the knowledge and the tools I believe I could do it myself in less than an hour. My neighbor used his little welding machine and he was done in 10 minutes. Unfortunately his machine is not strong enough for what I need, but nevertheless, the principle, dynamics, and fundamentals of welding are the same, whether you weld two useless pieces of metal together or weld those pieces on a body of a Porsche.

Sorry for ranting, I just can't believe the nerve on some of these shops...