Tiptronic Transmission - better than I thought

[PeterC4]

Coming from a 2000 C4 with a 6spd to a 2004 C4S tip, I was a little skeptical. The car I bought recently was in excellent condition and I wanted my wife to be able to drive the car, so I bought it with a tiptronic. It has absolutely surprised me as to how fun and quick this is to drive. I have driven a manual for 3 years and I can tell you, the tip is fantastic to drive. What it might give up at launch, it makes up for as you get going because downshifting an upshifting is so fast and effortless. Any other tip drivers out there? What has your experience been?

[Izzy]

My 99 Tip was great, but being a cabrio and since I was going to the track so much, I was affraid of the hammering of the Tip on track as a future problem, my local dealer agreed so I changed to a 6 speed.

But the Tip was great in traffic, and if I wanted to be frisky, downshifting with the hands on the wheel was great.

[CosmosC4S]

Tip's been great, except the auto really gets annoying as it tends to upshift too early all the time.

I usually find myself downshifting to "override" that default setting.

But the Tip is the best thing for situations like heavy traffice, and of course, the wife.

However, the manual is still the ultimate choice for toying around with a Porsche.

[Chuck Jones]

I have two Porsches and a big truck...all are standard transmissions. I'm getting older and finding that the clutch knee isn't what it used to be....and the prospect of a tiptronic is becoming much more attractive. I have a friend who has a 99 c2 tip...and his 0-60 times are better than I can do....consistently. I guess it's just the mindset of having a Porsche without a manual transmission that's the sticking point....but the tip with the paddle shifters on the steering wheel is sure easier on the bad knees!.

[CosmosC4S]

However...I've read a lot of good things about the Tiptronic Transmissions in the 997 Turbo's

Edited July 14, 2007 by CosmosC4S

[whs]

Coming from a 2000 C4 with a 6spd to a 2004 C4S tip, I was a little skeptical. The car I bought recently was in excellent condition and I wanted my wife to be able to drive the car, so I bought it with a tiptronic. It has absolutely surprised me as to how fun and quick this is to drive. I have driven a manual for 3 years and I can tell you, the tip is fantastic to drive. What it might give up at launch, it makes up for as you get going because downshifting an upshifting is so fast and effortless. Any other tip drivers out there? What has your experience been?

I had a Mercedes CLK with the tip style transmission and hated it! There was a significant delay in pushing the shifter and the transmission changing gears. The tip in the porsche is much much better. No delay between pushing the button and shift. I just wish they used paddles rather steering wheel buttons.

Will

[714dre]

correct me if I'm wrong... but aren't the specs on the newer pcars show the tips faster than the manuals all around...

[PeterC4]

correct me if I'm wrong... but aren't the specs on the newer pcars show the tips faster than the manuals all around...

The Turbo is faster in a tip don't know about the others, but real world driving, I think the tip is all-around quicker. The transmission is fast shifting and the steering wheel buttons are well positioned.

[Chuck Jones]

What I'm seeing between my car and my friend's car...both 99 c2...is that his transmission seems to be consistently faster...no missed shift...it shifts exactly when it's supposed to etc. Although I still have a manual tranny mindset....I am seeing that the tips do seem to maximize on the technological improvements that make them so consistent....and faster. Now I'm sure that a GT3 or cup car guy is going to jump all over me....but for the non-pros (myself included)....I'd almost swear that the tips are faster. I have never been able to match his 0-60 4.7sec times.

[PeterC4]

What I'm seeing between my car and my friend's car...both 99 c2...is that his transmission seems to be consistently faster...no missed shift...it shifts exactly when it's supposed to etc. Although I still have a manual tranny mindset....I am seeing that the tips do seem to maximize on the technological improvements that make them so consistent....and faster. Now I'm sure that a GT3 or cup car guy is going to jump all over me....but for the non-pros (myself included)....I'd almost swear that the tips are faster. I have never been able to match his 0-60 4.7sec times.

Well the more I drive this car, the more I think that a tip is faster too - for non-pros of course. I had my C4 6spd for 3 years and day to day, you had to pay close attention to get it just right, and there was more than once when I didn't. The tips change quickly when in manual mode and man, can you ever use the gears effectively through the corners.

[Izzy]

I am not so sure, having driven them both back to back as I owned 2 cars with each tranny. The 6 speed felt not only faster, but a lot easier to manage around corners on tracks. With the tip, you have instant torque and can spinout if you power through a hairpin (ask me how I know, I got the grass stains to prove it), but with the 6 speed, you have another pedal to help rotate the car around and can come out faster (not sure of C4s, though). Also, the gearing is different between the two, which may be part of the "quicker"acceleration for 6 speed. The new 997 TT is faster 0-60 on the Tip. But I don't think it is the same for the 996's. You also went from a 3.4 to 3.6, and S to boot, which gives you the HP gains.

I am a big fan of both, and loved how you can change gears while keeping your hands on the wheel all the time. You will have a blast no matter what.

[p0rsch3]

Coming from a 2000 C4 with a 6spd to a 2004 C4S tip, I was a little skeptical. The car I bought recently was in excellent condition and I wanted my wife to be able to drive the car, so I bought it with a tiptronic. It has absolutely surprised me as to how fun and quick this is to drive. I have driven a manual for 3 years and I can tell you, the tip is fantastic to drive. What it might give up at launch, it makes up for as you get going because downshifting an upshifting is so fast and effortless. Any other tip drivers out there? What has your experience been?

My 2002 C2 tip is not that impressive. While I think the potential is there with some software tweaking, my experience is it's very slow to change gears. I hit the button and there is a 1/4 to 1/2 second delay, and the engage is a slow-fade-in instead of a firm gear change. Feel like this trans was made for a old-folks 'sport' luxury sedan.

as a matter of fact, I can watch the gear shift indicator go to the next gear... and then after a delay the gear changes. Overall, I am quite bummed with the operation of it.

Some of you say it's great - maybe mine is just not working right?

[CosmosC4S]

It's a coincidence that you mentioned that P0rsch3

I took my car for a drive this afternoon coz' it's been sitting in the garage for several days,

I was dragging thru' the gears on one stretch, and was thinking to myself that the shifts were pretty quick on command.

Now you mentioned that yours takes a 1/4 to 1/2 second to shift...

Wouldn't that be faster, or at least as fast as manual shifting??

I mean, professional racing drivers aside, how fast can you expect to shift on a regular spirited drive?

Assuming that the Tip shifting is indeed a tad slow for someone, you could always learn to adapt to it,

and master the Tip shifts by perhaps shifting a 1/2 second prior to when you actually would shift? ;)

[p0rsch3]

It's a coincidence that you mentioned that P0rsch3

I took my car for a drive this afternoon coz' it's been sitting in the garage for several days,

I was dragging thru' the gears on one stretch, and was thinking to myself that the shifts were pretty quick on command.

Now you mentioned that yours takes a 1/4 to 1/2 second to shift...

Wouldn't that be faster, or at least as fast as manual shifting??

I mean, professional racing drivers aside, how fast can you expect to shift on a regular spirited drive?

Assuming that the Tip shifting is indeed a tad slow for someone, you could always learn to adapt to it,

and master the Tip shifts by perhaps shifting a 1/2 second prior to when you actually would shift? ;)

Appreciate your input-

Yeah, there is always some inherent 'personality' with any tiptronic or SMG system. For example, my previous two BMW's were tip's, and they were way sloggy from the factory. Dinan tip software fixed that right up with nice crisp shifts and raised shift points (holds gears longer and stops up-thrust shifting).

So, i'm used to the press-n-wait game, but the pcar tip is really poor comparatively (IMO).. I can deal with the slight delay, but the slow fade-in gear engagement is very tame for a pure sports car. If it were a crisp shift, that would be fine.

Additionally, the up-shift points are very low in auto mode. I'm rolling 5th gear at 36mph?? also notice a fair amount of up-thrust shifting on decelleration.

With the supposed 250 shift maps and adaptive computer (and I flog the heck out of my car), I expected more. Just my 2c.

I'm not looking for F1-style perfection, just something that feels right for the car. IMO this tip would be at home in say... a CL500.

The kicker here is, the car when cold shifts wonderfully (which you experienced since your car was cold).

There is a 'warm up map' that the tip uses which holds the gears longer and firms the shifts, and in auto mode it starts out in 1st.

When the engine reaches 32C, it goes back into slog mode. Too bad there's no way to keep it in the warmup map...

APR is interested in writing a 'sport' tip software upgrade but that's 6 months away. GIAC scoffed at the idea, I guess they don't like to listen to customer suggestions.

Edited August 13, 2007 by p0rsch3

[CosmosC4S]

You are probably right about the "fade-in" shifts in the Tiptronic,

I guess they want the shifts to be as smooth as possible?

Which it is pretty smooth, very close to my previous BMW E39 540i steptronic,

which was very smooth shifting that you could hardly feel the gears change if you are not paying attention.

So, I can understand there what you meant by the Tip's shifts are too smooth for a sports car.

I have driven a SMG 545i before and loved it, and you are right, the SMG is more sporty feeling.

But it has to be, it's a clutchless manual, NOT an auto, the Tiptronic is an auto.

That is why I said the Tiptronic is pretty good for an auto transmission.

The SMG can be pretty jerky shifting on the other hand, if you are not doing it right.

I've learned that you actually have to ease on the gas for a split sec, when you shift, just like a manual shift.

I tried that and the shifts were less jerky and more realistic like a manual shifter!

And you are right again about the **** Tip always shifting up too early!

I too am frustrated with it going up to 5th at such low speeds! I'm like WTF!?

So what I do is I've acquired a habit of stepping it down one notch everytime it hits 5th when I'm at low speeds.

However, I have to admit that my gas consumption has definitely gotten higher by about 2miles/gal with that driving style!

[ScottArizona]

I enjoy my tip as well, even though I've got the pre-02 (measly 5 maps) tranny. I don't care for the more conservative maps, and will often drive somewhat aggressive by activating the step down shifting just to keep it in a more aggressive mode. The best part of a tip (besides fact that my wife loves driving my car...a first in three porsches that she has said that about), is that I can absolutely blow nearly anyone away from high speeds due to the ability of the tranny to grab the smallest gear possible (i.e., I've had the car at around 75 in fifth, and when I step on it, it will grab 3rd and rocket forward) and use all the available rpm band. Unless the other driver is a really good driver, or knows his car very, very well, then I'm almost always faster (to a point) than cars with much more horsepower that should kill me from the get go.

[johnj.moran]

Coming from a 2000 C4 with a 6spd to a 2004 C4S tip, I was a little skeptical. The car I bought recently was in excellent condition and I wanted my wife to be able to drive the car, so I bought it with a tiptronic. It has absolutely surprised me as to how fun and quick this is to drive. I have driven a manual for 3 years and I can tell you, the tip is fantastic to drive. What it might give up at launch, it makes up for as you get going because downshifting an upshifting is so fast and effortless. Any other tip drivers out there? What has your experience been?

My 2002 C2 tip is not that impressive. While I think the potential is there with some software tweaking, my experience is it's very slow to change gears. I hit the button and there is a 1/4 to 1/2 second delay, and the engage is a slow-fade-in instead of a firm gear change. Feel like this trans was made for a old-folks 'sport' luxury sedan.

as a matter of fact, I can watch the gear shift indicator go to the next gear... and then after a delay the gear changes. Overall, I am quite bummed with the operation of it.

Some of you say it's great - maybe mine is just not working right?

I think the smoothness of the transmission has you fooled into thinking it's got an old-folks luxury sedan feel. It doesn't have the jerky feel that a manual has. As for the lag of 1/4 to 1/2 second, I think you're correct and that's normal. I'm not so sure a person could change from 1st to 2nd gear using a manual in less than a 1/2 second (from the time you first make contact with the clutch pedal to the time you finish the gear change).

[p0rsch3]

You are probably right about the "fade-in" shifts in the Tiptronic,

I guess they want the shifts to be as smooth as possible?

Which it is pretty smooth, very close to my previous BMW E39 540i steptronic,

which was very smooth shifting that you could hardly feel the gears change if you are not paying attention.

So, I can understand there what you meant by the Tip's shifts are too smooth for a sports car.

I have driven a SMG 545i before and loved it, and you are right, the SMG is more sporty feeling.

But it has to be, it's a clutchless manual, NOT an auto, the Tiptronic is an auto.

That is why I said the Tiptronic is pretty good for an auto transmission.

The SMG can be pretty jerky shifting on the other hand, if you are not doing it right.

I've learned that you actually have to ease on the gas for a split sec, when you shift, just like a manual shift.

I tried that and the shifts were less jerky and more realistic like a manual shifter!

And you are right again about the **** Tip always shifting up too early!

I too am frustrated with it going up to 5th at such low speeds! I'm like WTF!?

So what I do is I've acquired a habit of stepping it down one notch everytime it hits 5th when I'm at low speeds.

However, I have to admit that my gas consumption has definitely gotten higher by about 2miles/gal with that driving style!

yep, I only put it in auto mode when i'm feeling extroadinarily lazy. the early roll-up is highly annoying and you have to mash the gas pedal to go anywhere when it's in 5th @ 40mph. You have to blip the gas pedal down quickly to get the tip to drop down some gears, if you accellerate slowly it stays in 5th dogging along.

Some improvement will definitely come from modifying my driving habits to get used to operation of the tip in auto-mode, but there is also (IMO) alot of 'sport' left on the table. I have driven the E39 540i tip, E46 M3 SMG, E36 325 tip and E46 330i tip- both the 325 and 330i were dinan modified with tip software.

All felt more sporty than the 996 tip. So I guess every car has it's strengths and weaknesses. All the 996 tip needs is some good software tweaking and it would be spot-on.

If i manage to make any progress on that front through APR i'll let everyone know.

Don't get me wrong though, I love my pcar :)

[PeterC4]

What's really interesting is putting the tip in manual mode, starting from first and just driving it and letting the transmission shift the gears as it reaches peak RPM.

[p0rsch3]

What's really interesting is putting the tip in manual mode, starting from first and just driving it and letting the transmission shift the gears as it reaches peak RPM.

Peak RPM as in 'peak power' in the rpm band or as in redline? I thought it only upshifted in manual mode at redline as a safety feature / never tried it.

[CosmosC4S]

I've never tried that either...Once I accidentally stepped on it from a light and it was in Manual, I thought it was in Auto.

I panicked a little when it unexpectedly revved up that high, looked on the dash, and only realized it was in Manual,

so I quickly flicked to upshift, didn't even have the chance to check the rpm, but it sounded very high and the car was not moving any faster,

so it was probably at the peak already.

I'm sure it will automatically upshift to protect the engine.

I know sometimes when I'm in Manual and have been cruising for a while, it somehow switches back to Auto??

[p0rsch3]

I've never tried that either...Once I accidentally stepped on it from a light and it was in Manual, I thought it was in Auto.

I panicked a little when it unexpectedly revved up that high, looked on the dash, and only realized it was in Manual,

so I quickly flicked to upshift, didn't even have the chance to check the rpm, but it sounded very high and the car was not moving any faster,

so it was probably at the peak already.

I'm sure it will automatically upshift to protect the engine.

I know sometimes when I'm in Manual and have been cruising for a while, it somehow switches back to Auto??

It should never shift back to auto if you physically have the shifter in the manual position.

If you have the shifter in the auto position and hit the shift buttons, it goes to manual mode and will remain there until you stop manual-shifting for 8 seconds- then it goes back to auto-mode.

One neat thing to try-

leave the stick in auto mode and stop at a light or stop sign. hit the shift button to drop to 1st. it will stay there indefinitely until you drive off, then it will upshift to 2nd and back to auto mode. good way to get a jump off the line.