Defective Engine Case?

[cowboyzx6]

Took my low mileage (8800 or so) 2002 996 to the shop this past Friday for yearly checkup. Once on the lift, the tech discovered corrosion on a corner of the engine case. Upon further inspection, he noticed some coolant in the same area (this would explain low coolant levels). His initial prognosis is defective engine case thus requiring a new engine :cursing: He said he has never seen such a situation before. Tech is guessing that just a tiny drop is leaking every once in a while and not dropping to the garage floor which is why I probably didn't notice.

I have an appointment with the dealer tomorrow morning for them to look at it.

I just wanted to see if you guys have heard of this happening before? I did a search on the forums but could not find a similar situation. I have no idea what the dealership is going to tell me given that my warranty has expired (plus I am the second owner (although I am not sure if that has anything to do with it)).

I know i should just wait and see what the dealer says but I am anxious and edgy and I thought you guys might have some advice I can use before I actually see the dealer (just the idea of having to pony up the $$$ for an egine replacement has definitely caused me some sleep issues these past few nights).

[vizcarra44]

Took my low mileage (8800 or so) 2002 996 to the shop this past Friday for yearly checkup. Once on the lift, the tech discovered corrosion on a corner of the engine case. Upon further inspection, he noticed some coolant in the same area (this would explain low coolant levels). His initial prognosis is defective engine case thus requiring a new engine :cursing: He said he has never seen such a situation before. Tech is guessing that just a tiny drop is leaking every once in a while and not dropping to the garage floor which is why I probably didn't notice.

I have an appointment with the dealer tomorrow morning for them to look at it.

I just wanted to see if you guys have heard of this happening before? I did a search on the forums but could not find a similar situation. I have no idea what the dealership is going to tell me given that my warranty has expired (plus I am the second owner (although I am not sure if that has anything to do with it)).

I know i should just wait and see what the dealer says but I am anxious and edgy and I thought you guys might have some advice I can use before I actually see the dealer (just the idea of having to pony up the $$$ for an egine replacement has definitely caused me some sleep issues these past few nights).

I remember at the dealer we had a couple of Pourous case issues, the Factory just had us use JB WELD to seal the pore.

vizcarra44

[cowboyzx6]

just got back from the dealer and they confirmed that I have a porous crank case and the only solution is to replace the entire engine :o .

The car is out of warranty now but they are going to contact Porsche in Germany to see if they would offer some "goodwill" on a replacement because of the low mileage and otherwise excellent condition of the car. If not, engine replacement is estimated at $15k.

supposed to hear somthing back in 24-48 hours.

anxiously waiting...

Lenny

[demosan]

just got back from the dealer and they confirmed that I have a porous crank case and the only solution is to replace the entire engine :o .

The car is out of warranty now but they are going to contact Porsche in Germany to see if they would offer some "goodwill" on a replacement because of the low mileage and otherwise excellent condition of the car. If not, engine replacement is estimated at $15k.

supposed to hear somthing back in 24-48 hours.

anxiously waiting...

Lenny

Lenny,

Sorry to hear of your engine diagnosis being the infamous porous engine casting problem. Hopefully your dealer will leverage your extremely low milage engine into a warranty replacement at P expense. I also have an 02 C4S I was anxious to hear exactly where your "leak" occurred. Good luck with the P folks and if their proposalisn't to your satisfaction this is one I would elevate to PCNA and beyond if necessary as I think you have an excellent case for a warranty replacement. keep us posted as to your progress!!

demosan

[cowboyzx6]

just got back from the dealer and they confirmed that I have a porous crank case and the only solution is to replace the entire engine :o .

The car is out of warranty now but they are going to contact Porsche in Germany to see if they would offer some "goodwill" on a replacement because of the low mileage and otherwise excellent condition of the car. If not, engine replacement is estimated at $15k.

supposed to hear somthing back in 24-48 hours.

anxiously waiting...

Lenny

Lenny,

Sorry to hear of your engine diagnosis being the infamous porous engine casting problem. Hopefully your dealer will leverage your extremely low milage engine into a warranty replacement at P expense. I also have an 02 C4S I was anxious to hear exactly where your "leak" occurred. Good luck with the P folks and if their proposalisn't to your satisfaction this is one I would elevate to PCNA and beyond if necessary as I think you have an excellent case for a warranty replacement. keep us posted as to your progress!!

demosan

The exact verbage from the invoice is: "Pressure tested cooling system-Leaking from crankcase. Case appears to be pourous"

[slbates]

just got back from the dealer and they confirmed that I have a porous crank case and the only solution is to replace the entire engine :o .

The car is out of warranty now but they are going to contact Porsche in Germany to see if they would offer some "goodwill" on a replacement because of the low mileage and otherwise excellent condition of the car. If not, engine replacement is estimated at $15k.

supposed to hear somthing back in 24-48 hours.

anxiously waiting...

Lenny

Lenny,

FWIW, I would try an epoxy repair before throwing in the towel (if Porsche doesn't help out) . Back in the early eighties a friend hit the water jacket when he tried to go just a little too large on the intake ports. Rather than throw away a set of heads he had been developing over a period of a couple of years (bracket racing) he decided to give a epoxy repair a shot. Believe it or not it worked very well and was still holding up 5 years later. The cooling system is not under a huge amount of pressure. I don't know what the spec is on the pressure relief valve, but it is probably is not mor than 20psi or so. If the leak is only in the waterjacket and not at a critical location, such as at the combustion chamber or head gasket mating surface, then it can possibly be repaired.

He had originally purchased the epoxy to do some plenum shaping on a custom intake, so the epoxy was designed to be fuel proof and heat resistant. I will give him a call to see if he has any recommendations. I don't talk to him very often so this will give me a reason to get in touch. Today's epoxies should be much better than those of 20 years ago. Get the surfaces prepared properly and I bet you would have an excellent chance for a sucessful repair. Find out the exact location of the leak and go from there. You have nothing to lose.

Edited July 12, 2007 by slbates

[cowboyzx6]

just got back from the dealer and they confirmed that I have a porous crank case and the only solution is to replace the entire engine :o .

The car is out of warranty now but they are going to contact Porsche in Germany to see if they would offer some "goodwill" on a replacement because of the low mileage and otherwise excellent condition of the car. If not, engine replacement is estimated at $15k.

supposed to hear somthing back in 24-48 hours.

anxiously waiting...

Lenny

Lenny,

FWIW, I would try an epoxy repair before throwing in the towel (if Porsche doesn't help out) . Back in the early eighties a friend hit the water jacket when he tried to go just a little too large on the intake ports. Rather than throw away a set of heads he had been developing over a period of a couple of years (bracket racing) he decided to give a epoxy repair a shot. Believe it or not it worked very well and was still holding up 5 years later. The cooling system is not under a huge amount of pressure. I don't know what the spec is on the pressure relief valve, but it is probably is not mor than 20psi or so. If the leak is only in the waterjacket and not at a critical location, such as at the combustion chamber or head gasket mating surface, then it can possibly be repaired.

He had originally purchased the epoxy to do some plenum shaping on a custom intake, so the epoxy was designed to be fuel proof and heat resistant. I will give him a call to see if he has any recommendations. I don't talk to him very often so this will give me a reason to get in touch. Today's epoxies should be much better than those of 20 years ago. Get the surfaces prepared properly and I bet you would have an excellent chance for a sucessful repair. Find out the exact location of the leak and go from there. You have nothing to lose.

Thanks for the suggestion. Somebody else suggested using JB Weld. I guess that is an option but I don't really want to think about that until I hear back from Porsche Germany. I don't really want to speculate which way they will go with this matter. I hope to hear back from them tomorrow and will update the group then.

Lenny

[cowboyzx6]

Well just got a call from the dealer. They said they would pay for 50% of the total repair costs. They are working up the quote right now and wanted to know what I was going to do. I said that I wanted everything in writing 1st before I make a decision. He said he needed to know before they withdraw their offer. I said I don't know what to do yet and will need to think about it some more. The 1st thing he said is if I plan on taking it to a lawyer. All I said was that I don't know what I am going to do.

The conversation was very quick and rushed (it seemed like he was in a hurry). So now I am waiting on the quote and then I have to decide what I want to do.

suggestions?

[viper501]

I'm going through a motor replacement right now. The dealer cost on the reman motor is about 6800 w/ Sunset Porsche selling for about 7800. Brandywine was going to sell me the engine for 7500 but really truly dicked me over (I'll save that experience for another thread because everyone should be warned about doing business with Brandywine Porsche). Labor to remove and replace should be about ten hours according to the shop labor books I've seen. The dealer where I broke down qouted me an out the door installed price of ten grand and change for miscelllaneous expenses. The local dealer tried to screw me something serious by qouting me at sixteen thousand. Needless to say I am having the motor shipped to an indie shop and installed for *substantially* less. I just offer this as a data point to know whether their "fifty percent" qoute is really fifty percent of the 'real' price of replacement or their playing games with the numbers.

Good luck. And do talk to a lawyer.

[skipp]

I was curious what the outcome was with this situation? Any resolution

[cowboyzx6]

Not much has happened. I am still waiting on a quote from the dealer (the service manager has been out of town for the past couple of days). In the mean time, I have opened a case with Porsch NA asking them to cover the entire cost of the replacement because of the low mileage on the car. They supposedly take about 15 business days to reply. So I will wait for them to reply and then go from there.

I did get a quote from Sunset for a new engine: $7500 (after the $2400 core exchange) plus shipping both ways. Several local shops say the engine swap will take about 20 hours (most guys here charge around $100/hr). So we are talking about $11k after all is said and done.

FWIW, I spoke to about 5 independent shops in the area (plus the dealer) and they all have the same opinion...their experience indicates that Porsche NA will not offer me any goodwill w/regards to paying for the engine replacement.

cowboyzx6

[skipp]

Thanks,

Let us know the outcome....what is a "core charge" Is this you giving them your ruined engine?

[cowboyzx6]

yes. I pay $2400 upfront and they credit me that amount upon satisfactory return of the core.

[ChuckLogan]

yes. I pay $2400 upfront and they credit me that amount upon satisfactory return of the core.

Have you heard anything from Porsche NA. . I can't believe this stuff they should cover it, what a joke.

Edited July 25, 2007 by ChuckLogan

[ChuckLogan]

yes. I pay $2400 upfront and they credit me that amount upon satisfactory return of the core.

Have you heard anything from Porsche NA. . I can't believe this stuff they should cover it, what a joke.

Sorry but we are loyal Porsche people . . . and I expect more from them, they do of us and we all stepped up and paid the asking price.

If you do not get them to participate at 75% or above I would consult a lemon law attorney.

Sorry to hear this.

Good luck

[cowboyzx6]

Hey guys,

Just wanted to give you the update as to what we did.

After opening a case with Porsche NA, a rep actually flew out and took a look at the car. He suggested that a non-invasive approach be taken, which is what I did. So, the dealer applied an epoxy (Permatech Permatex PermaProxy) to the porous area. We will monitor the coolant level and run a pressure test in a few months to check if the epoxy approach is working. If not, I will have no choice but to replace the engine case. So, keeping my fingers crossed and back to enjoying the ride.

Thanks for all your PMs!