Newbie - should I be buying this car?

[thorin23]

I'm in a unique situation and maybe you guys can help. I've basically put down a deposit on a 2003 911 Carrera 4S with around 20,000 miles on it. I only sign purchase agreement tomorrow so I have till then to pull out of the deal. The car is in mint condition and is completely optioned out with everything I'm looking for.

Its only flaw is that it had its RMS seal replaced about 4,000 miles ago and after doing a PPI, we found out that it needed another RMS seal. The dealer is willing to pay for the cost of doing this before delivering the car. I love the car, but don't want a lemon either. Is this RMS issue that big a deal? Is the fact that this car has needed another one just 4,000 miles after the last one a significant fact?

It sounds to me like this is a problem on a lot of these cars and is basically an achilles heel. I don't want to give up this car to buy one w/o RMS issues and then find out that it may have bigger problems or god forbid then develop an RMS issue.

I have to make my decision tonight and my mind is just racing with all the possibilities...

[Loren]

Where are you located and who is the dealer.

The tech is supposed to do a measurement on the seal bore after removing the leaking seal - if it does not meet factory specs then they are supposed to replace the motor -- period.

It would also be worth asking if the they used the newest seal last time - it would start with a 997.xxx.xxx.xx part number.

[Chuck Jones]

Don't let them rush you into a signing....if they want to do the deal, they can wait a day or two. I take it that the car isn't being offered with a CPO warranty otherwise this would be a moot point. Loren raises some very valid and relevant points. Again, I realize the car is beautiful...has every option you want, and you don't want to see someone else scoop you....but do NOT let them rush you into a signing.....they want to sell it to you...but make sure that it's under YOUR conditions, not theirs.

I rushed into a deal and it ended up costing ME about $1500 when it should have been taken care of by the previous owner....haste makes waste.

[thorin23]

I'm located in Toronto, Canada. I'm buying the car from a private delaership - they have a good reputation and they treated one of my co-workers very well after he purchased his 996 from there. The PPI is being done at Downtown Porsche and I'm speaking with the service manager this morning about the issue. What are some of the questions I should be asking? I've already got a list - prime among them, I want to know if the tolerance is within specs and if so, why did they have to replace it again after 4,000 miles. I'm also planning on asking if they installed the latest seal last time and using the correct tool.

What should I do IF they tell me that they used the correct seal last time AND this time. I can see him telling me that these things happen and that its all up to you if you want the car. I'm betting on an answer that's ambiguous... that's what'll really confuse me. But after doing a ton of research and seeing what you guys have said, I think I should walk away if his answers are not satisfactory....

[thorin23]

Okay. So I just talked with the service manager who seemed like an honest guy. He basically told me that this wasn't too big an issue ("it wouldn't prevent me from buying the car") and that he sees a lot less of it now than he used to a few years ago. "Apparently the newer seals are doing a better job." When I asked why the two seals failed so soon together, he said that's what sometimes happens - "you can never predict when these things are gonna go - could be 4,000 miles, could be 60,000 miles..."

He also said that they are using the latest seal and newest tool. And that the seal itself came with a 2 year warranty, so they'll replace it again for me if it goes out in the next two years. I have to be honest, I've been very much comforted by this call. What do you guys think?

[Chuck Jones]

To be honest with you...the seal is no big deal really. There's a lot of hoop-la made over the RMS, but basically it's a seal that's replaceable for about $800, or you can let it leak for a while till you need a clutch job and it won't be detrimental to the health of your engine. The PPI is the thing you should be focused on...and have them run the onboard computer and get a print out of the category 1 and 2 events as well as a lot of other information that can be used to determine the health of your engine. There are discussion threads here on how to read the DME outputs and what they mean. For instance, you can see the total number of hours your engine has been running.....this can be used as a baseline for other data to make fairly accurate determinations of how the car has been treated....or whether there are issues that need to be looked into.

The other option you have....which sounds like you're already going down that path....is that you trust the guy and will go with the deal based upon the verbal assurances he's going to give you. Your explanation of your relationship with the dealership is full of "He also said that......" Remember, talk is cheap....it really comes down to what your expectations are when something really goes wrong and you come back to the same guy who's giving you the assurances now. What are they willing to do to help you out? What will they cover versus expect you to cover? Without a warranty...they're under little or no obligation to do much of anything except charge you for the repairs. Are you "comfortable" with the deal? Comfort is an elusive subject that lasts as long as nothing goes wrong.... and is best quantified by a good warranty. I don't mean to sound negative...because there are a lot of good honest dealerships out there with some really nice cars to sell......but it's the "Oh-oh" part of the scenarios that you have to think about.

[thorin23]

Loren & Chuck Jones - thank you so much for the replies, much appreciated. I went ahead and took delivery last night - indeed I was satisfied by what the service manager had to say and what the PPi report showed. Wow! I've never driven a sports car before and this was something. First car I've owned that feels more like my motorcycle...