Aftermarket Exhaust

[9971830]

i have done extensive research over the last few months and i am very confused about what aftermarket exhaust is the best. i received a full exhaust system from one of the above mentioned companies and the quality was sub-par. after viewing pictures the salesman agreed w/me concerning the quality and accepted back the product i'm now back to square 1. my 997 CS is sitting in my garage w/the stock system removed. has anyone done any type of comparisons or purchases of the headers, cat's, & mufflers from any of these tuning companies? i know enough at this point what to require 1. mandrel bent tubing (no welds on angles as it will interupt the air flow) 2. good customer service (not a company only willing to correspond through e-mail) 3. german made cat's that have a guarantee not to turn on your co2 sensor 4. fitment: products that will fit together w/perfection 5. reasonable price

A). Who has the best HEADERS? WHY?

B). Who has the best Cat's? WHY?

C). Who has the best Mufflers? WHY?

Edited June 14, 2007 by 9971830

[PAULSPEED]

Hi.

I would throw on the stock stuff and drive it for

a while. I do not think your impression of who is best

will be found without some compromise.

Paul

Edited June 15, 2007 by PAULSPEED

[Dan_997]

I purchased and installed the AWE system primarily to gain the advertised HP and T increases. I was impressed by the quality of the products and how well matched all the components were. The system is working great and I get many complements on and off the track on how the car sounds. I also didn't notice any significant increase in sound volume over the stock system in normal use.

Good luck with your decision.

Dan

[dndodd]

I purchased and installed the AWE system primarily to gain the advertised HP and T increases. I was impressed by the quality of the products and how well matched all the components were. The system is working great and I get many complements on and off the track on how the car sounds. I also didn't notice any significant increase in sound volume over the stock system in normal use.

Good luck with your decision.

Dan

This is a never ending question at this point for me. Everything I have read leads in different directions. I was heading AWE's way. Now I am not sure. Talked to the folks at APR this weekend at Barbers during a DE. Bought their software for my A3 and really like it.

They claim their headers, cats, muffler, BMC a/f and software are good for 43HP. Billy Boat mfgs their headers and mufflers. The cats come from Germany - 200 CEL. They claim they are quieter than an AWE but louder then Miltek.

Remus is another option to consider as are the guys who make the RSS plenums they are going to be impoting a system from Germany last I heard. I have the plenum and am vbery happy with the improvement.

I am seriousily considering X-51 headers, someones cats and the stock muffler to see how it works. I think the main bang for the buck comes from the cats and the headers in that order and I don't really want a loud system.

Good luck.

[sharkster]

i have done extensive research over the last few months and i am very confused about what aftermarket exhaust is the best. i received a full exhaust system from one of the above mentioned companies and the quality was sub-par. after viewing pictures the salesman agreed w/me concerning the quality and accepted back the product i'm now back to square 1. my 997 CS is sitting in my garage w/the stock system removed. has anyone done any type of comparisons or purchases of the headers, cat's, & mufflers from any of these tuning companies? i know enough at this point what to require 1. mandrel bent tubing (no welds on angles as it will interupt the air flow) 2. good customer service (not a company only willing to correspond through e-mail) 3. german made cat's that have a guarantee not to turn on your co2 sensor 4. fitment: products that will fit together w/perfection 5. reasonable price

A). Who has the best HEADERS? WHY?

B). Who has the best Cat's? WHY?

C). Who has the best Mufflers? WHY?

A couple of things that come to mind here. On the NA cars I've had one too many instances of CELs with after-market cats. They eventually trigger CELs, or at least the ones with 100, 200 cell cats do. The only set that hasn't and that I still use are the AWE cats. We've seen/installed/tried every exhaust system you can do and to date here are my favorites 1)Exhaust- Tubi- the sound is fantastic. The materials are very light in weight. There's no resonance. The built quality is top-notch but it's very expensive at 2350 for the mufflers. Installation is a breeze because the fitment is perfect. The Europipe is also a fantastic exhaust (again very expensive) and hand-made with some of the prettiest welds you'll ever see. The sound is also something that needs to appreciated in person (However it's not light). I like the AWE for its price/value. It's fairly quiet (even when you're on it) so it's very liveable for a daily driver. For the 1195 range it's the best one out there.

I've always liked the Tech Art stuff but have much more experience with their parts on the 996TT/997TT side. I've only done a couple of tech art mufflers on NA cars and the sound was deeper than the other two mentioned above but still nice and sporty (not boaty). Fitment was great (as you'd expect).

Cats - honestly I would stay stock

Over to the headers, I would say it's a close call between the Tubis and the AWE. Both are nicely manufactured (the Tubi "looks" prettier if that matters to you). The nice thing about the tubi headers is that they do not hand down any further than the stock ones, which is an issue to some people. The tubis are about 1000 more than the AWEs though. Both are similair in style in terms of being longer tube and equal length and have venturi-style collectors.

Edited June 22, 2007 by sharkster

[Andre5]

i have done extensive research over the last few months and i am very confused about what aftermarket exhaust is the best. i received a full exhaust system from one of the above mentioned companies and the quality was sub-par. after viewing pictures the salesman agreed w/me concerning the quality and accepted back the product i'm now back to square 1. my 997 CS is sitting in my garage w/the stock system removed. has anyone done any type of comparisons or purchases of the headers, cat's, & mufflers from any of these tuning companies? i know enough at this point what to require 1. mandrel bent tubing (no welds on angles as it will interupt the air flow) 2. good customer service (not a company only willing to correspond through e-mail) 3. german made cat's that have a guarantee not to turn on your co2 sensor 4. fitment: products that will fit together w/perfection 5. reasonable price

A). Who has the best HEADERS? WHY?

B). Who has the best Cat's? WHY?

C). Who has the best Mufflers? WHY?

A couple of things that come to mind here. On the NA cars I've had one too many instances of CELs with after-market cats. They eventually trigger CELs, or at least the ones with 100, 200 cell cats do. The only set that hasn't and that I still use are the AWE cats. We've seen/installed/tried every exhaust system you can do and to date here are my favorites 1)Exhaust- Tubi- the sound is fantastic. The materials are very light in weight. There's no resonance. The built quality is top-notch but it's very expensive at 2350 for the mufflers. Installation is a breeze because the fitment is perfect. The Europipe is also a fantastic exhaust (again very expensive) and hand-made with some of the prettiest welds you'll ever see. The sound is also something that needs to appreciated in person (However it's not light). I like the AWE for its price/value. It's fairly quiet (even when you're on it) so it's very liveable for a daily driver. For the 1195 range it's the best one out there.

I've always liked the Tech Art stuff but have much more experience with their parts on the 996TT/997TT side. I've only done a couple of tech art mufflers on NA cars and the sound was deeper than the other two mentioned above but still nice and sporty (not boaty). Fitment was great (as you'd expect).

Cats - honestly I would stay stock

Over to the headers, I would say it's a close call between the Tubis and the AWE. Both are nicely manufactured (the Tubi "looks" prettier if that matters to you). The nice thing about the tubi headers is that they do not hand down any further than the stock ones, which is an issue to some people. The tubis are about 1000 more than the AWEs though. Both are similair in style in terms of being longer tube and equal length and have venturi-style collectors.

Wow. Nice write up Sharkster.

[papaskog]

i have done extensive research over the last few months and i am very confused about what aftermarket exhaust is the best. i received a full exhaust system from one of the above mentioned companies and the quality was sub-par. after viewing pictures the salesman agreed w/me concerning the quality and accepted back the product i'm now back to square 1. my 997 CS is sitting in my garage w/the stock system removed. has anyone done any type of comparisons or purchases of the headers, cat's, & mufflers from any of these tuning companies? i know enough at this point what to require 1. mandrel bent tubing (no welds on angles as it will interupt the air flow) 2. good customer service (not a company only willing to correspond through e-mail) 3. german made cat's that have a guarantee not to turn on your co2 sensor 4. fitment: products that will fit together w/perfection 5. reasonable price

A). Who has the best HEADERS? WHY?

B). Who has the best Cat's? WHY?

C). Who has the best Mufflers? WHY?

A couple of things that come to mind here. On the NA cars I've had one too many instances of CELs with after-market cats. They eventually trigger CELs, or at least the ones with 100, 200 cell cats do. The only set that hasn't and that I still use are the AWE cats. We've seen/installed/tried every exhaust system you can do and to date here are my favorites 1)Exhaust- Tubi- the sound is fantastic. The materials are very light in weight. There's no resonance. The built quality is top-notch but it's very expensive at 2350 for the mufflers. Installation is a breeze because the fitment is perfect. The Europipe is also a fantastic exhaust (again very expensive) and hand-made with some of the prettiest welds you'll ever see. The sound is also something that needs to appreciated in person (However it's not light). I like the AWE for its price/value. It's fairly quiet (even when you're on it) so it's very liveable for a daily driver. For the 1195 range it's the best one out there.

I've always liked the Tech Art stuff but have much more experience with their parts on the 996TT/997TT side. I've only done a couple of tech art mufflers on NA cars and the sound was deeper than the other two mentioned above but still nice and sporty (not boaty). Fitment was great (as you'd expect).

Cats - honestly I would stay stock

Over to the headers, I would say it's a close call between the Tubis and the AWE. Both are nicely manufactured (the Tubi "looks" prettier if that matters to you). The nice thing about the tubi headers is that they do not hand down any further than the stock ones, which is an issue to some people. The tubis are about 1000 more than the AWEs though. Both are similair in style in terms of being longer tube and equal length and have venturi-style collectors.

[papaskog]

You had no comments for Fabspeed, do you have an opinion on their product or have you not any experience with them? Just curios becuase from there website they sound fantastic.

[phillipj]

I have the Fabspeed mufflers on my 996 and love them. I really like the sound but again it is a very personal thing.

I have a friend with a 997 and he found the X-51 Porsche headers for a really good price (less than $800 from a dealer somewhere) He did notice a bit of low end torque loss but he likes the performance overall.

Almost everyone I have spoken to that has changed their cats has not been too happy. You do lose some low end torque and the sound is quite harsh.

I agree with the others to leave on the stock cats and just modify the mufflers and possibly the headers.

Tubi has a great web site with sound clips. Might want to check that out.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Phillipj

[Guest zaitster]

Remus is another option to consider as are the guys who make the RSS plenums they are going to be impoting a system from Germany last I heard. I have the plenum and am vbery happy with the improvement.

There's one on eBay right now, I'm in the market for a 997 Cabrio and I'm looking already for a new exhaust sytem, looks pretty well done.

[elfresco]

The stock headers on the 997 are designed to deliver more than 2x the air required - you will see no performance gain by changing headers. Be skeptical of anyone claiming you will see more hp on a Porsche from new headers.

Many aftermarket exhaust systems sound "bumble-beeish". I have yet to hear anything better-sounding than the Porsche Sport Exhaust System. You would be well served to compare the sound in person and judge for yourself.

I'm skeptical in general of any gains in hp claimed by the manufacturers of those aftermarket systems; after all, they want to sell you their products. I would insist on seeing before and after dynos from an INDEPENDENT mechanic, not the manufacturer, dealer, or installer, of those systems. I would need some assurance that the dyno was not recalibrated to bias the results towards the aftermarket equipment.

[Guest zaitster]

Get this and be done with it :

http://www.remusexhaustshop.com/porsche-ca...lus-p-1324.html

They manufacture the kits for Gemballa, AC Schnitzer, Brabus and other aftermarket companies and OEM companies.

[phillipj]

Get this and be done with it :

http://www.remusexhaustshop.com/porsche-ca...lus-p-1324.html

They manufacture the kits for Gemballa, AC Schnitzer, Brabus and other aftermarket companies and OEM companies.

I agree that that is a nice system but why?? 6k? That you will never see again? I don't see the sense when the money would be better spent on a chip and mufflers. Just my opinion and I respect yours as well.

Phillipj

[Guest zaitster]

I think you can order the system in seperate parts.

Obviously 6k on an exhaust system is freaking high, but hey if you got you car chipped already and want the nicest system around, and you have the money, why not.

[phillipj]

I think you can order the system in seperate parts.

Obviously 6k on an exhaust system is freaking high, but hey if you got you car chipped already and want the nicest system around, and you have the money, why not.

Agreed!!! :clapping:

[SAMASA]

I think you can order the system in seperate parts.

Obviously 6k on an exhaust system is freaking high, but hey if you got you car chipped already and want the nicest system around, and you have the money, why not.

aliya wolf pictures

Agreed!!! :clapping:

About yes :renntech:

[baptist]

Ive currently got the Tubi on my 997 4S, gorgeous sound, but would like more of it.

Would you suggest AWE cats, or the Tubi manifold?

Thanks.

[Dave07997S]

Ive currently got the Tubi on my 997 4S, gorgeous sound, but would like more of it.

Would you suggest AWE cats, or the Tubi manifold?

Thanks.

Wow you are making the rounds...the metallic 200cpi cats will do more for sound and hp than the manifolds. Before you go spend all that money on the Tubi manifold's consider the X51 parts from Porsche as they are a 1/4 of the cost with the same performance.

Dave

[baptist]

Tubi's are already ordered, so thats the way Im going with it. Would have done the X51's if I'd known.

These 911 forums arent quite as busy as I'd hoped, so Im posting on alot of sites, as answers are quite slow coming!

Appreciate any opinions. :)

[function_analysis]

I purchased and installed the AWE system primarily to gain the advertised HP and T increases. I was impressed by the quality of the products and how well matched all the components were. The system is working great and I get many complements on and off the track on how the car sounds. I also didn't notice any significant increase in sound volume over the stock system in normal use.

Good luck with your decision.

Dan

This is a never ending question at this point for me. Everything I have read leads in different directions. I was heading AWE's way. Now I am not sure. Talked to the folks at APR this weekend at Barbers during a DE. Bought their software for my A3 and really like it.

They claim their headers, cats, muffler, BMC a/f and software are good for 43HP. Billy Boat mfgs their headers and mufflers. The cats come from Germany - 200 CEL. They claim they are quieter than an AWE but louder then Miltek.

Remus is another option to consider as are the guys who make the RSS plenums they are going to be impoting a system from Germany last I heard. I have the plenum and am vbery happy with the improvement.

I am seriousily considering X-51 headers, someones cats and the stock muffler to see how it works. I think the main bang for the buck comes from the cats and the headers in that order and I don't really want a loud system.

Good luck.

I had the Europipe system installed on my MY07 911C2S earlier this summer, directly at the manufacturer's workshop in Antwerp, combining it with a holiday tour across central Europe (Athens-Ancona-Strassbourg-Antwerp-Saint Moritz-Lugano-Ancona-Athens). I had literally read tons of threads prior to deciding about what system best fits my P-car, I had also thorougly examined most of the technical features of the majority of the systems in the market, however none of these approaches could sufficiently discuss the transformed driving experience I got after the replacement of the stock system with the Europipe. Ahhh, not to forget, I had also given a good try to the soundful PSE on one of the importer's car, at no additional power gain however that made me reject the option.

I agree Europipe rather seems to be an expensive system in the first place, BUT there is no doubt it worths each and every penny of the investment, both in terms of product quality and service delivery at the manufacturer's end. Some other guy here talked about the best-of-breed welds they perform. I would also add the long-long development time it took them to deploy a system that among others accounts for the +16bhp power gain and the tiny-tiny details such as the universal joints they include as to make their system stand apart. :clapping:

Now, ~4k km with my new gadget on, I can clearly reassure you that the standard engine performance has been successfully revised, let alone the +16bhp you get and the built-in sound enhancement particularly in the low rpms. The 'black-power-hole' of the engine between 2,5 and 4 thousand rpm is out of question, thus eliminating the annoying downshifting at the time you instantly need significant amounts of power delivery.

The engine breaths much more efficiently due to the 100 cpi catalysts and the larger diameter pipes comared with the stock system. Not only does the engine plunge easier into the red zone even with the fifth or the sixth gear in the play, it also makes the other 997 drivers questioning 'how and why' their cars are left behind. Only X51 kit owners can go a bit faster at much greater price.

As many others here, I've been driving cars since I was 14 years old. What's more I used to be professional test driver for the greatest part of our national automotive magazines having experienced almost any exceptional road machine up to 2002. Nonetheless I have to admit that never before had I noticed a third-party system outperforming in such a great manner the original one.

Think I should stop right away, otherwise as this is my first post I'll be accused of being associated in some way with the manufacturers. Truth is I don't, so please feel free to visit www.rennteam.com for more testimonials and meet many other happy Europipe owners across both sides of the Atlantic.

In any case I can send loads of pictures showing the operation and answer any related questions.

Edited September 23, 2007 by function_analysis

[porschester]

Thanks for the unique europipe exhaust presentation, it seems like it is a system well worth the money. Just a few days ago, I had to choose which exhaust system to implement on my 997 C4S, and after looking at several I decided to go for TUBI, the fitment is impeccable, the sound amazing, and the power...well I also had the car chipped with GIAC....but TUBI claims 7-11 horses if I am not mistaken.....regadless I think that the welding quality and sound of TUBI alone, made me a beleiver....

Cheers

Porschester

[function_analysis]

Good to hear about the Tubi system. Would you please post a couple of pictures and/or soundfiles.

Rgds!

Thanks for the unique europipe exhaust presentation, it seems like it is a system well worth the money. Just a few days ago, I had to choose which exhaust system to implement on my 997 C4S, and after looking at several I decided to go for TUBI, the fitment is impeccable, the sound amazing, and the power...well I also had the car chipped with GIAC....but TUBI claims 7-11 horses if I am not mistaken.....regadless I think that the welding quality and sound of TUBI alone, made me a beleiver....

Cheers

Porschester

[DelbertW]

You had no comments for Fabspeed, do you have an opinion on their product or have you not any experience with them? Just curios becuase from there website they sound fantastic.

Hi

I fitted the Fabspeed Maxflo Mufflers with Fabspeed Tips to my 997C2 and sound was awesome. Not too loud just fantastic. I would have put them on my new C2S but it had the Porsche Sports Exhaust. IMHO Fabspeed sounds nicer especially after a few thousand miles. Sounds a bit tinny when not coated ie new.

No idea if they added any BHP but seemed quicker - could have just been the noise. The tips where great also, looked much better than standard C2 tips.

Oh also put on Cold Air Kit and BMC F1 Filter - well worth it for ease of fitting and price !! Transferred from C2 to C2S no problem.

Have fun whichever route you take.

DelbertW

[shocky]

I think you can order the system in seperate parts.

Obviously 6k on an exhaust system is freaking high, but hey if you got you car chipped already and want the nicest system around, and you have the money, why not.

Agreed!!! :clapping:

[shocky]

Did the PSE at the dealer on my base 997. It has Sport Chrono and you control the PSE with that switch and at a recent PCA event everyone liked the sound!