Am I getting ripped off?

[simplex]

Hey guys, this is my first post, and unfortunately it's not the one I'd like to make,. I'm afraid I'm getting ripped off by a mechanic. I'm not going to post his info in case I'm just over-reacting, but it's in the San fracnisco Bay area.

First some background: 9 months ago I bought my first car, a 2003 Boxster S. I had it checked out by Modderman in Mountain View. They gave it a clean bill of health, said specifically there were no leaks, brakes were okay, and the only thing I needed to watch out for was replacing the tires soon. I only drive her on the weekends, so I don't put many miles on the car.

Last week I tried to start the car and the battery was dead. I jumped her and she started right up, but the next day the battery was dead again, so I made an appointment with a local repair shop to replace the battery. I dropped her off and told him to do the annual maintenance while she was in there.

I get a call the next day saying the front brakes discs were bad and needed to be replaced. He also told me the engine mount was damaged and that also needed to be replaced. He said they were both pretty serious so I told him to go ahead and fix them. He quoted me $1750 for everything.

Later he then told me he couldn't find my wheel lock socket so I explained where it was. He also said the engine mount was really mangled badly.

This leaves me with a few questions: Could he evaluate the front brakes without first removing the wheels? If the engine mount was that badly damaged is it likely that Modderman would have missed it when they checked it out 9 months ago?

Today he calls me and says there's a bad oil leak that is affecting the clutch. He said my clutch pedal is way stiffer than normal. He says it will cost alot more since he needs to remove the transmission in order to get to the leak.

Is this guy ripping me off, or is this just standard Porsche maintenance? What should I do?

Thanks for any help!

[wvicary]

Take it to another garage and get a second opinion. There are a lot of crooked mechanics out there.....

[Chris_in_NH]

Well, getting ripped off is pretty standard with Porsches, so welcome to the club! ;)

Yes, a mechanic can tell if the rotors are bad by measuring them with a micrometer. If he had the car on a lift, he could get to the rotors easily without removing the wheels. He might even be able to do it with the car on the ground. To give you an idea of cost, I bought 4 brand new Zimmerman rotors (OEM) for $300. Of course a dealer or independent wrench will charge more than that, but that's what you can get them for.

As far as the motor mount, Modderman *might* have missed it. I can't say. Motor mounts do need to be replaced from time to time, and it involves jacking up the engine so that the mount can be replaced.

The clutch oil leak that he's talking about sounds like the Rear Main Seal. It is a very well-known problem with Boxsters. But it is not critical in the least - unless the leak is REALLY bad - which it probably isn't. Many people just live with a few drops of oil on their driveway and plan to replace the RMS when they replace their clutch. Something about this guy is not sounding on-the-level to me. I would pay your bill and get out of there.

Is this car still under warranty? If it is, don't spend another dime. All of this should be covered.

Did Modderman give you a report of some kind noting what they checked? Because if the motor mount is bad, the front rotors are bad, and you have an oil leak, it sounds like they didn't do their job, and you bought the car on their recommendation. You may have some legal recourse... I don't know. Again, I can't tell who's right or wrong in all of this, but I would start doing some investigating. First off, I would want to see the parts that he removed from your car. Always ask for your parts back - they're yours. And always ask BEFORE the shop starts doing work. This will let them know that you're smarter than the average Joe and will be keeping an eye on them. This is just being an educated consumer. If they give you a hard time about it, don't have any work done there. Take it to someone else.

If you can get your old parts back, especially the motor mount, take a picture and post it here. We can easily tell you if the mount is bad. As for the rotors, there is a minimum thickness that they should have in order to be replaced. I can't remember exactly, but I think a new rotor has 24mm thickness, and needs to be replaced when it has worn 2mm (down to 22mm thickness.) Front rotors do usually need to be replaced before rear rotors, as the car's weight shifts to the front when braking. How many miles are on this car? If you say 10K miles, I would suspect that this guy is taking you for an expensive ride. I got 90K miles out of my rotors before I replaced them. (This is not usual, but you should get at least 50K miles out of them.)

In the future, if someone tells you that something needs to be replaced, ask them how they arrived at that decision. Did he measure the rotors? Can he tell you the rotor thickness? What made him suspect the motor mount, etc.?

As I suggested, find another shop and get a second opinion. Then post back here with the second opinion before you spend any money. We will keep them honest and save you money. I hate getting ripped off, too. I'm guessing that 2 new rotors (from an independent shop) would cost $100-$150 each, plus a couple hours labor at ~$75 per hour. So that's $450 at the top end of the price scale. That leaves $1300 for the motor mount/labor and that is complete bullsh*t!

Take your car somewhere else.

[Scotto]

Porsche cars sitting, or stored, for more than a few day must have a tickle charger attached. It’s cheaper than replacing batteries that are dead.

Was your local repair shop, a Porsche approved shop?

Do they only work on, or have allot of experience with Porsche?

PM Loren or Tool Pants and ask them for advice for mechanics in the Bay area.

Sounds fishy to me, no pun intended. :)

[Chris_in_NH]

didn't get the pun, but now i do... ;)

Edited June 1, 2007 by Chris_in_NH

[Eric (Plug Guy)]

I'd get over to Sharkwerks and ask Alex to have a closer look. I trust those guys.

Fremont area.

[LVDell]

1. Put a new battery in YOURSELF

2. Do the brakes YOURSELF

3. Get a second opinion on the motor mounts and if needed have them replaced. They are NOT expensive at all to replace.

[986Jim]

1. Put a new battery in YOURSELF

2. Do the brakes YOURSELF

3. Get a second opinion on the motor mounts and if needed have them replaced. They are NOT expensive at all to replace.

This was exactly what I was going to say.

You can buy the brakes front and rear with pads for about 400 bux or so, don't even consider paying for them. Porsche builds cars so certain things are easy to work on for the weekend racer. Brakes are definitely one of those items. The battery seriously is like replacing the cigarette lighter, take the old one out put the new one in.

The mount could be missed by even so it's not that expensive. Is the motor sloshing around in the engine bay that you can feel or hear? Even if the mount was toast I would pull the mount buy urethane and fill the mount solid then re-install it. We have been doing that on race cars for years instead of buying mounts. It will make it stiffer but doing only one mount you will never feel or tell that in the car. That will cost about 20 bux in urethane. If you want to know where to buy it let me know I'll show you pics and give you a link where to get it. If you don't like that you can buy a new mount no big deal too. The urethane is nice cause it keep the motor put in the engine bay, just don't do em all or you get vibration, 1 will be ok tho.

There should not be anything more expensive to do on this car than to do on a Cavalier (within reason). Parts can be had for the same price and to re-re a tranny in a boxster is easier than a FWD car.

[Loren]

The best (IMHO) Boxster guys in the Bay Area are RMG Enterprises in Mountain View.

Talk to Bob Grigsby there and they will give you an honest evaluation on your motor mount.

RMG ENTERPRISES

960 W. El Camino Real

Sunnyvale, CA 94087

(408) 738-2060

For all the other stuff I have to agree - easy DIY stuff.

[simplex]

Ok here's an update:

I thought my car was no longer under warranty, but the mechanic called me today and said it was! He said he wants to take it to a dealership and they will replace the RMS. He also told me before that he's sure the pressure plate needs to be replaced and that the parts for a "clutch kit" will cost $650 and is not covered under the warranty. Does this make any sense?

To answer some previous questions:

The car has 27k miles on it. The repair shop came highly recommended and it specializes in German makes.

[Chris_in_NH]

Ok here's an update:

I thought my car was no longer under warranty, but the mechanic called me today and said it was! He said he wants to take it to a dealership and they will replace the RMS. He also told me before that he's sure the pressure plate needs to be replaced and that the parts for a "clutch kit" will cost $650 and is not covered under the warranty. Does this make any sense?

To answer some previous questions:

The car has 27k miles on it. The repair shop came highly recommended and it specializes in German makes.

dude, go get your car and drive away FAST!

do you understand that the warranty would have taken care of the motor mount AND the clutch/RMS? i'm not sure if it would have covered the rotors as they are a wear-and-tear item, but i will bet that at 27K miles, they did not need to be replaced to begin with.

a new clutch kit (with ALL clutch parts) is about $300! and of course it is covered under warranty. clutches should not be failing at 27K miles. my original clutch is at 116K miles now.

if you have paid him $1700, chalk it up to a learning experience, because you got taken - and BAD!

[LVDell]

Ok here's an update:

I thought my car was no longer under warranty, but the mechanic called me today and said it was! He said he wants to take it to a dealership and they will replace the RMS. He also told me before that he's sure the pressure plate needs to be replaced and that the parts for a "clutch kit" will cost $650 and is not covered under the warranty. Does this make any sense?

To answer some previous questions:

The car has 27k miles on it. The repair shop came highly recommended and it specializes in German makes.

dude, go get your car and drive away FAST!

do you understand that the warranty would have taken care of the motor mount AND the clutch/RMS? i'm not sure if it would have covered the rotors as they are a wear-and-tear item, but i will bet that at 27K miles, they did not need to be replaced to begin with.

a new clutch kit (with ALL clutch parts) is about $300! and of course it is covered under warranty. clutches should not be failing at 27K miles. my original clutch is at 116K miles now.

if you have paid him $1700, chalk it up to a learning experience, because you got taken - and BAD!

You can go through a clutch in a weekend or you can have it for 200K miles. It is all about YMMV so there is NO WAY to make a blanket statement about clutch life (or as you stated failure). As for the clutch costing only $300, you must have some serious connections to grab one at that price. Either that or it is not a complete clutch kit.

[Chris_in_NH]

You can go through a clutch in a weekend or you can have it for 200K miles. It is all about YMMV so there is NO WAY to make a blanket statement about clutch life (or as you stated failure). As for the clutch costing only $300, you must have some serious connections to grab one at that price. Either that or it is not a complete clutch kit.

ok, true. but let's assume that most drivers know how to use a clutch. so do you think that 27K miles is a reasonable amount of time for a clutch to last? i don't. the point is moot anyway, because this guy's clutch probably doesn't need to be replaced. this mechanic sounds like he's trying to make some money off someone that is a little too trusting.

serious connections? i don't think so. Google 'boxster clutch' and you will see some prices. i have seen the Sachs clutch kit for as low as $260. and they are complete kits.

[LVDell]

agree that the mechanic is trying to make some extra cash.

yes you can get a clutch kit for $300 if you go aftermarket. I should have clarified I was talking about OEM.

[Chris_in_NH]

agree that the mechanic is trying to make some extra cash.

yes you can get a clutch kit for $300 if you go aftermarket. I should have clarified I was talking about OEM.

i thought Sachs *is* OEM.

[LVDell]

SACHS is aftermarket.

OEM means Genuine Porsche Parts with a PCNA part number

[Chris_in_NH]

SACHS is aftermarket.

OEM means Genuine Porsche Parts with a PCNA part number

i understand that. but obviously Porsche doesn't make most of the parts that they use in their cars. for example, the ignition switch is an Audi part. you can buy it from the Porsche dealer parts counter for $X, or buy the same Audi part elsewhere for $20. even though it is not a 'Porsche' part, i still consider it 'OEM', because that is the same exact part that Porsche uses/sells.

so, by that terminology, the Sachs clutch is OEM, just like the Audi ignition switch/Bosch MAF/Zimmerman rotors/Brembo brakes, etc.

[LVDell]

Cut it any way you want, but OEM is NOT aftermarket regardless if it is the SAME manufacturer. You have to be careful with your terminology especially if you ever sell anything part-wise and tell somebody it is OEM and then send them an aftermarket part only to have to hear an earful from a pissed off customer.

[Chris_in_NH]

Cut it any way you want, but OEM is NOT aftermarket regardless if it is the SAME manufacturer. You have to be careful with your terminology especially if you ever sell anything part-wise and tell somebody it is OEM and then send them an aftermarket part only to have to hear an earful from a pissed off customer.

yes, yes...

but for PRACTICAL purposes, an item made by the same OEM supplier and using the same part number to which Porsche applies their part number *is* OEM. there is no difference except for the Porsche packaging, Porsche price (and maybe warranty).

[Glyn]

Cut it any way you want, but OEM is NOT aftermarket regardless if it is the SAME manufacturer. You have to be careful with your terminology especially if you ever sell anything part-wise and tell somebody it is OEM and then send them an aftermarket part only to have to hear an earful from a pissed off customer.

yes, yes...

but for PRACTICAL purposes, an item made by the same OEM supplier and using the same part number to which Porsche applies their part number *is* OEM. there is no difference except for the Porsche packaging, Porsche price (and maybe warranty).

Chris, Im with you on this one - Its the same part, sod the plastic bag or box the part comes in - you throw those in the bin.

And when you consider the parts are identical and only the part number for Porsche has to be stamped on it or a sticker applied and then the price doubles does this mean the stamper or sticker fixer is earning a shedload?

Ive not seen the job advertised but i think i could do that job for ---ohh 100k a year - Does anyone know who i apply to :jump: