490 Amp Question + Rear Speakers

[subwiz]

Hello,

This is my first post to the group, I have read the older post on the 490 Hi-Fi package and found them very helpful.

As far as I understand, since I have an 04 Boxster S with the 490 audio package I already have the six channel amp, so adding the rear speakers is a bit of a breeze connecting to the unused channels.

The speakers that I would like to use are made by Dynaudio (MD102 one inch tweeter and MD142 three inch mid range) and was looking for feedback on the Ohm rating of the amp as according to Dynaudio's web site their tweeter and mid range are rated at 8 Oms...

I am also a little confused about the crossover filter built into the factory amp, would I also need to buy the Dynaudio crossover for the rear?

Last comment... I don't think their three inch mid-range produces sound lower than 500hz so not sure how well they would sound back there, has anyone else used this set of speakers in their car?

Thanks,

David K.

[Cassiebox]

subwiz - can't answer all your questions, but I'll take a stab at some of them:

As far as I understand, since I have an 04 Boxster S with the 490 audio package I already have the six channel amp, so adding the rear speakers is a bit of a breeze connecting to the unused channels.

Correct - just run them thru the firewall, add the wires/pins to the open slots in the harness and you're good to go. Very easy to do.

The speakers that I would like to use are made by Dynaudio (MD102 one inch tweeter and MD142 three inch mid range) and was looking for feedback on the Ohm rating of the amp as according to Dynaudio's web site their tweeter and mid range are rated at 8 Oms...

Might have a problem here w/ too much resistance for amp to handle. Stock speakers were:

4Ohm in the dash

4 Ohm in my rear kit - PNP

2 Ohm in the doors

at least on my '99 w/ M490

I am also a little confused about the crossover filter built into the factory amp, would I also need to buy the Dynaudio crossover for the rear?

The stock amp does have a low pass filter built in for the door channels. Don't think it has one in either the dash or rears, but don't know for sure.

Last comment... I don't think their three inch mid-range produces sound lower than 500hz so not sure how well they would sound back there, has anyone else used this set of speakers in their car?

I have the PNP kit w/ has 2 sets of 3.5" speakers which are supposed rated to 100-20K Hz, 50W R-M-S/100W peak. Some people with these kits have also added a tweeter to enhance the sound. The rears really are just for fill - not necessarily for clarity. They help pull the sound stage from directly behind the windsheild to more where your ears are - in the middle of the car.

Good luck and hopefully some others have more info for you! Also, do a search in the archives for rear speakers and you'll get more info than you could possibly ever need.

[subwiz]

Hi Cassiebox,

Thanks for the comments, really appreciate the info.

Subwiz

[gandrade1]

Hello all,

I am in the process of choosing the right components to update the audio system in my 2001 Porsche Boxster. So far, I have replaced the dash and the door speakers. When I replaced the dash speakers with Infiniti Kappa 42.7 i (specs below) I noticed a great improvement, however the replacement of the door speakers (with 5 1/4 focals 130 CA) did not benefit much the bass of my car. I further noticed that the dash speakers are 2 ohm while the doors are 4 ohm. Can that have any impact on the results I am getting now? Should I have replaced the door speakers with 2ohm’s coaxials based on the current amp I have HAES (4X40w non DSP). I don’t have the specs for it…

The other question I have is what amp should I chose (or what specs should I look) as I chose the replacement for my current HAES, based on the speakers I replaced (specs) below?

Thank you very much for your great support (I love this space)

Gustavo

DASH

Infinity Kappa 42.7i (4’’)

2-way 4" speakers (pair)

2-ohm impedance

Plus One woven-glass-fiber woofer cone with rubber surround

M.M.D. dome tweeter

computer-optimized outboard crossovers with tweeter level control

power range: 2-50 watts RMS (150 watts peak power)

frequency response: 75-25,000 Hz

sensitivity: 93 dB

top-mount depth: 1-13/16"

warranty: 3 years

DOORS

Focal 130 CA (5 ¼’’)

Frequency Response (Hz) 65 - 30,000 Hz

Impedance (Ohms) 4

Model 130CA

Peak Power (watts) 100

Recommended Power Range (watts RMS) 50

Sensitivity (dB) 91

Speaker Size (inches) 5.25

Speaker Type 2-Way

[subwiz]

Hi gandrade1,

I am certainly not an expert in this field, hence my post looking for help too.

Your dash speakers read like they should perform well, so not real comments on there. However getting vastly improved bass from the same diameter door speaker is not going to happen. You might want to consider keeping the factory amp and look into a good set of 6 1/2" door speakers, I think this should suffice. :)

There is a great document http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?a...ost&id=5022 that really helps with custom Hi-fi installs.

I am still not 'out of the gate' with mine but certainly have learnt a lot already myself.

Thanks,

David K.

Edited April 13, 2007 by subwiz

[Charlestonboxster]

Hello,

This is my first post to the group, I have read the older post on the 490 Hi-Fi package and found them very helpful.

As far as I understand, since I have an 04 Boxster S with the 490 audio package I already have the six channel amp, so adding the rear speakers is a bit of a breeze connecting to the unused channels.

The speakers that I would like to use are made by Dynaudio (MD102 one inch tweeter and MD142 three inch mid range) and was looking for feedback on the Ohm rating of the amp as according to Dynaudio's web site their tweeter and mid range are rated at 8 Oms...

I am also a little confused about the crossover filter built into the factory amp, would I also need to buy the Dynaudio crossover for the rear?

Last comment... I don't think their three inch mid-range produces sound lower than 500hz so not sure how well they would sound back there, has anyone else used this set of speakers in their car?

Thanks,

David K.

Hi Guys. I did a LOT of research, and trial and error and trial and success to improve audio on a budget. Some notes are in past posts.

Off the top of my head, and only my opinion,

David:

Assuming you are keeping factory dash and door...

If you can, order the PNP rear instead of choosing drivers yourself, plug and play, no worries about ohms, watts, range, fitting in enclosure.

If you got the Dynaudios and are ready to install, ohms don't matter much, the drivers will be faded softer than the front range anyways, rear output of amp is full range, 4-8 ohms is fine for amp, and allthough 500hz seems high for a 3", and it is the absolute f3 lower limit, I would look for different rear drivers with an f3 of 200hz or less.

The rear is ideally only for midrange fill (vocal and instrument range), and for spatial sound stage help. <200 hz not necessary but 200 hz to 500hz important. High hz does not matter (as a matter of fact, better if attenuated)

Factory amp, if you are keeping other factory speakers intact, is suficent for rear power.

Please feel free to fire away with questions.

[Charlestonboxster]

Hello all,

I am in the process of choosing the right components to update the audio system in my 2001 Porsche Boxster. So far, I have replaced the dash and the door speakers. When I replaced the dash speakers with Infiniti Kappa 42.7 i (specs below) I noticed a great improvement, however the replacement of the door speakers (with 5 1/4 focals 130 CA) did not benefit much the bass of my car. I further noticed that the dash speakers are 2 ohm while the doors are 4 ohm. Can that have any impact on the results I am getting now? Should I have replaced the door speakers with 2ohm’s coaxials based on the current amp I have HAES (4X40w non DSP). I don’t have the specs for it…

The other question I have is what amp should I chose (or what specs should I look) as I chose the replacement for my current HAES, based on the speakers I replaced (specs) below?

Thank you very much for your great support (I love this space)

Gustavo

Good start! Kappas are fine for front. Very fine.

It is not recommended to have coaxes in doors because the high midrange and tweeter range of sounds coming from the lower part of the car will disrupt a proper, clear Front End Sound Stage, where you hear the sound as if it's coming from a Stage on Front of you, and you are sitting 10 rows back, with a little bit of the sound bouncing off the rear, giving you a 3d feel of the music. In our little boxster interior, tweeter sound range from door is not ideal, balance between dash and rear is, with MID bass to Low Mid range ONLY coming from the doors.

Learned from extensive research in online high end audio forums, and long talks with Jamey in LA, formerly from Paris Audio, 10 year veteran of high end Audio installs exclusivily in Porsches, Boxsters and 911's.

I don't know how your door 5.25"'s are installed. You might get more bass if you install them with the baffles, but not much.

And you should disconnect the tweeter, if you add rear speakers (recommended, but if you are on a budget, I would do better doors and amp first, then sub, in that order!).

A better option would be to install 6.5" Mid Bass drivers in the doors with the custom baffle as per the EXCELLENT PDf document in the next post by David.

A good 6.5' "Mid Bass" driver in a properly installed, duct taped door frame, with with a bit of bass boost, will give you a surprising amount of bass. (nothing like a sub, but really surprising)

Speaking of Sub, a fellow board member sourced out the direct souce in LA for the Footwell Enclosures, at a GREAT price, $250 ish (need to add sub woofer and amp and carpet, easy)

The 6.5" mid bass JL audios i have do that.

If you are considering adding a sub and amp, keep the coaxes in door (save $) and remove tweeter, if not,

than you must accept less bass or change the door drivers and install.

I am writing this on the fly, please fire away with questions.

[Charlestonboxster]

Hi gandrade1,

I am certainly not an expert in this field, hence my post looking for help too.

Your dash speakers read like they should perform well, so not real comments on there. However getting vastly improved bass from the same diameter door speaker is not going to happen. You might want to consider keeping the factory amp and look into a good set of 6 1/2" door speakers, I think this should suffice. :)

There is a great document http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?a...ost&id=5022 that really helps with custom Hi-fi installs.

I am still not 'out of the gate' with mine but certainly have learnt a lot already myself.

Thanks,

David K.

Great post David,

Right on about dash and door.

I am not sure if factory amp is strong enough to drive 6.5"'s in door to a good bass level, but highly likely seeing as power to dash is within the same limitation.

However, a potential problem is we don't know what the factory crossover points or power attenuation are, seeing as it's designed for the factory 2 Ohm Nokia door drivers.

"Probably" ok to drive 4 ohm mid bass after market door drivers.

Andy's PDF is EXCELLENT, and of incredible value, many thanks to Andy for doing this.

So many details in there that I learned by error, like dremeling the webs inside the door panel to fit over the baffles etc...!!!

FYI: Jamey from Rawlings Audio (see reference above) in LA cut perfectly sized baffles for me, painted and shipped for about $70. Jamey - 626-372-0744 tell him Tony - Charleston gave you #.

A bit different than Andy's. For my install, I removed all the foam, and duct taped. Andy's method easier.

From a factory install, I would probably prioritize (depending if you have 4 channel or 6 and other factors):

This is off the cuff, late at night, assorted rambling:

First, I am biased.

I love clear, loud music, and believe that if you are going to modify/improve, do it well, even on a self install budget, you can have a really, really good and self satisfying, clear and loud system for kick *** for about $1500

Assuming you want to keep factory head unit (if you want to change amps, change the head unit, or go through wiring nightmares)

#1: 3 Way front stage setup w/ crossovers, to replace both dash and door in one crack. About $250-$350

Required dash replacement, and proper door install with baffles ($75 if bought from Jamey)

I am extremely happy with the German made JL Audio's I bought. Great crossovers.

Cheap Option with 4 channel: Do only dash with replacement coaxes, keep Factory Doors for mid bass (not bad actually, until driven at higher volumes).

6 Channel mod, can be bought for $100 ish on ebay, and replace the 4 channel, same footprint.

I bought one to replace ny 4 channel, but decided to upgrade to a new after market amp.

#2: Add rears IF you have factory 6 channel amp. PNP is easiest solution. I would add bass blockers so you don't burn speaker at high volume. (www.partsexpress.com) Fade it so you "barely" hear the rears, then take one more notch again off the rear fade (yup, most of the sound should come from front)

Personally, as you improve the system, the factory amp very quickly becomes the weak link, sub or no sub, if you like a bit of high volume, especially with the top down.

If the factory sound level if Loud enough for you, than no worries.

Um where was I.

Gosh, every install is so personal, depending on budget, time to DIY or not, music style and volume tastes,

and actually, an important factor is how important strong volume with the TOP DOWN is important or not!

Getting late, please ask questions if you feel I can help, I'll see if I can dig up old thread of mine,

Andy covered a lot about speaker install, but head unit, amp, and SUB are a whole different story.

I made my own sub fiberglass box after much research, have many pics, I would NOT do it again!

Buy it for $250 from LA, add a driver for <$100 (many to choose from I can recommend). Buy black carpet for $10 at parts express, or Factory match carpet for $50-$100.

Tony - who LOVES-LOVES-LOVES listening to music in my Boxster, and it's LOUD top down.

:)

[Charlestonboxster]

Found the old thread with Andy's start and a few pics of my mods.

http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?s...c=9187&st=0

Hope this helps,

I LOVE my Boxster. 14k miles in 12 months, daily driver.

[Charlestonboxster]

here are various options for the door.

If it were me, and I did not want a seperate subwoofer,

I would fit the 6x9 sub with sound deadened baffle in both

well duct tape sealed doors.

Very good bang for the buck, and would handle amp upgrade very well.

Probably 75% of the volume and bass you can get with a seperate 8" sun in footwell enclosure, which is a lot.

(I drove mine at 100wrm plus)

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cf...tnumber=264-864

Note. If you cant fit it in, you can return it to PE for refund/exchange!

Some car audio fanatics have had excellent results with the Dayton RS series as mid bass in doors,

(properly crossed over) but they use subs for real bass.

6” RS

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cf...tnumber=295-372

7”RS

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cf...tnumber=295-372

Another 6 x 9 sub

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cf...tnumber=264-837

6.5” sub, 3.5” depth, this is way I would go if no separate sub and I was uncertain about the 6x9 fit.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.c...FTOKEN=28173552

[subwiz]

Hi Tony,

Thanks for the comments. I have tried the use of 6 x 9 in my other car (MINI Cooper S) in the rear door panels, I did have to foam in the cavity being the speakers to get the bass I was looking for from them. I also used an aftermarket amp, the factory one was not up to par.

The 6 x 9's that I used were made by Genesis Genesis Link

Not quite the same as adding a 10" or 12" Sub, but the bass increase was significant over the factory system.

At the moment I seem to be leaning toward adding the Dynaudio 162GT 6.5" in the doors with their 3" mid and 1" tweeter. But with their 162GT having a 3" voice coil I doubt the factory amp will do this speaker justice. So going this route will most likely include a new amp.

Good news is I am in no rush to get this done, so will keep reading and learning until I have the best solution that suits me.

David K.

[subwiz]

I found a NEW rear Bose speaker on a popular auction site that I decided to buy. Now going on a hunt for more details on how to match up to the M490 system...

David K.

[Charlestonboxster]

Dynaudio's would be great, top quality.

You may find that the Bose rear is not as appealing as it seems.

[atmorris]

Just a note to clear up a couple of things I see in these posts that are worth addressing.

1) Stock M490 option amp contains crossovers internally and will only feed low/mid bass to the door speakers. For that reason, mid bass drivers are the best selection. However, placing coaxial drivers in the doors will work ok as well, but the bass quality may not be as good - depending on the driver being used. No mid/high frequencies will be received by the driver anyway, rendering the high frequency driver inactive. You might want to do this however if, for example, you plan to later change the head unit and/or amp (have to do both at the same time in a MOST system - ie.. MY03 and later) to aftermarket units, and intend to allow the door drivers to broadcast full range sound at that time. There are compact sub systems out there, like the Kenwood KSC-SW1 that can easily, and inexpensively, be added and produce much better bottom end than the door drivers do anyway.

2) The stock drivers, to the best of my knowledge, are 4 ohm. I am not certain of this for every model year, but make sure you check yours out and are positive. Staying with this impedance is the best and safest bet. Be carefull of mixing impedances, as it changes the load the amplifier sees and, under the right conditions, can damage the amp. It is generally considered safer, where you MUST use a different impedance driver for some reason, to use higher impedance drivers althought output power will suffer. Use of lower impedance drivers can more easily allow the amp to be over driven and go into clipping, potentially causing damage to the amp, speakers, or both.

Thanks for all the kind words about my guide. Glad to see that it is helping people. :)

[gandrade1]

Hi Andy,

Thanks for your advice.

Last time we spoke I had just ordered the Focals 130 CA for the doors. I installed them and didn’t get much improvement in the bass (as expected, considered the OEM amp). I am however planning to acquire the Harvey’s Rear Kit next and hook them up to the Becker CDR 220. Later I will get a Kenwood KSC-SW1 and let the doors play full spectrum. Finally I am thinking (not sure) about getting a Nakamichi CD 500 to replace the old Becker.

My question is basically on the choice of amplifier:

- Do I necessarily need to get a 5 to 6 channel amp, or is there any setup I can go for which will allow me to power the dash, doors, rear and sub (this is already amplified) with a 4 channel amp and the head unit. I know I don’t need much power (but rather clean signal) for the rear speakers and the sub is already amplified? My concern with the 6-ch amp is the space they take and the price they go for.

- Do you have any suggestions on a 4-ch amp or a reasonably sized 6-ch (id I need to go this route) which would fit in the front trunk with out much modification or taking a lot of space?

Sorry for the long reply.

Thanks for the attention,

Gustavo Andrade

:renntech: