2001 BoxsterS: Blown head gasket

[sboxster]

Hi,

I am a newby. My wife purchased for my B-day a 2001 Boxster S silver six speed with 126,000 miles for $14,500. I have been wanting one for several years. After a month of driving the car blew a head gasket and my mechanic says I need a new engine. Should I just sell this car on e-bay for parts or by a new engine from Porsche with a warranty? What else could go wrong with this if I decide on a new engine? I am use to japanese cars.. sorry if this upsets anyone but am wondering if I should quit while I am ahead if you call it that. I really enjoy the car but don't know how much more money I want to throw at it. We just replaced the cracked coolant case (coolant was in the trunk). The mechanic was in the process of replacing the water pump when he said it was not holding the pressure and told me my engine failed. This mechanic has a good reputation. Any advice?

Thanks for your help.

[PTEC]

Hi,

I am a newby. My wife purchased for my B-day a 2001 Boxster S silver six speed with 126,000 miles for $14,500. I have been wanting one for several years. After a month of driving the car blew a head gasket and my mechanic says I need a new engine. Should I just sell this car on e-bay for parts or by a new engine from Porsche with a warranty? What else could go wrong with this if I decide on a new engine? I am use to japanese cars.. sorry if this upsets anyone but am wondering if I should quit while I am ahead if you call it that. I really enjoy the car but don't know how much more money I want to throw at it. We just replaced the cracked coolant case (coolant was in the trunk). The mechanic was in the process of replacing the water pump when he said it was not holding the pressure and told me my engine failed. This mechanic has a good reputation. Any advice?

Thanks for your help.

Well its a shame that this happened but you can throw a new engine in and in all reality you'll probably go problem free in all major areas of the car for another 100,000 miles.

However, remember a Boxster is NOT a japanese car. You may still run into to some minor problems in areas other than the engine/trans. Its all a question of how much is driving the Boxster worth to you. If you really love it then it shouldn't hurt you to much to spend some cash on it getting in good shape.

[rountreed]

You may be able to pick up a used motor off of another car with around 40000 miles for much less money but PTEC is correct think alternator, AC, etc....

Sorry and best of Luck!

[SkipC]

He didn't mention anything about driving the car overheated, so why would a blown head gasket require an engine rebuild ?

Thanks, Skip

Edited April 5, 2007 by SkipC

[tholyoak]

If you decide to sell the car as is, I am interested in purchasing it.

Good luck

Todd

[sboxster]

He didn't mention anything about driving the car overheated, so why would a blown head gasket require an engine rebuild ?

Thanks, Skip

What happened was I was driving near my home and started dumping coolant. White steam or smoke appeared coming out of the side vents. The temp gauge started to climb but the light never blinked. I drove home immediately, maybe 10 minutes. I added coolant later and as I was adding it it was coming out under the center of the car. I had it towed to my mechanic who thought it was the water pump and replaced it but said the system could not hold pressure. I guess he explained that it blew a hole while he was working on it, if that makes sense.

Thanks,

Brad

[rushrevisited]

He didn't mention anything about driving the car overheated, so why would a blown head gasket require an engine rebuild ?

Thanks, Skip

What happened was I was driving near my home and started dumping coolant. White steam or smoke appeared coming out of the side vents. The temp gauge started to climb but the light never blinked. I drove home immediately, maybe 10 minutes. I added coolant later and as I was adding it it was coming out under the center of the car. I had it towed to my mechanic who thought it was the water pump and replaced it but said the system could not hold pressure. I guess he explained that it blew a hole while he was working on it, if that makes sense.

Thanks,

Brad

I would get it towed to an authorized Porsche dealership and get a second opinion... Something seems wrong here.

Edited April 5, 2007 by rushrevisited

[RFM]

Hi

I'm agree with " rushrevisited " go to an O.P.C. for a second opinion.

Success

[atmorris]

Ditto.....something doesn't smell Kosher here.....

Nothing (smoke) coming out of the exhaust when this happened ?

How badly was it "dumping coolant? ", we talking garden hose on full or we talking a bathroom sink faucet on low/med ?

How high did the temp gage get ? For how long?

Was the car losing power badly ?

[sboxster]

Ditto.....something doesn't smell Kosher here.....

Nothing (smoke) coming out of the exhaust when this happened ?

How badly was it "dumping coolant? ", we talking garden hose on full or we talking a bathroom sink faucet on low/med ?

How high did the temp gage get ? For how long?

Was the car losing power badly ?

Andy,

It appeared that white smoke or steam was coming out of the side vents. I don't remember if it was the exhaust but definitely the side vents. As soon as this happened ..about 10 minutes later I was at home. The temp gauge rose 3/4 up but the temp light did not blink so I thought I was safe driving for 5 to 10 minutes. The car drove fine. I got home and let the car cool off for 30 minutes, then opened the coolant reservoir which was just replaced (it was cracked). I thought it could have been this again since this mechanic replaced it a week ago and I had driven it this week with no problems. The mechanic told me to watch the coolant level becuase he was not able to bleed everything out...not sure what this means... so again I thought this was the issue just low coolant. Now the coolant was low so I added some water. As I added the water I looked under the middle of the car and saw coolant coming out like the bathroom sink on medium. I also checked the oil and it was fine no emulsion.

I saw my car today. The brand new coolant reservois in the trunk had a huge hole in it from a blow out. The mechanic showed me my broken water pump. He still installed a brand new water pump and thermostat and charged me for that... nice guy.. I am having my car towed to Porsche for a second opinion. I still am not sure why I need a new engine if the car supposedly has a blown head gasket. Can't this be fixed even if it has 126,000 miles on it? Also I don't understand why pressure built up in the coolant system to blow a hole in the reservois.

Thanks for your advice and help.

Bradley

[atmorris]

Ditto.....something doesn't smell Kosher here.....

Nothing (smoke) coming out of the exhaust when this happened ?

How badly was it "dumping coolant? ", we talking garden hose on full or we talking a bathroom sink faucet on low/med ?

How high did the temp gage get ? For how long?

Was the car losing power badly ?

Andy,

It appeared that white smoke or steam was coming out of the side vents. I don't remember if it was the exhaust but definitely the side vents. As soon as this happened ..about 10 minutes later I was at home. The temp gauge rose 3/4 up but the temp light did not blink so I thought I was safe driving for 5 to 10 minutes. The car drove fine. I got home and let the car cool off for 30 minutes, then opened the coolant reservoir which was just replaced (it was cracked). I thought it could have been this again since this mechanic replaced it a week ago and I had driven it this week with no problems. The mechanic told me to watch the coolant level becuase he was not able to bleed everything out...not sure what this means... so again I thought this was the issue just low coolant. Now the coolant was low so I added some water. As I added the water I looked under the middle of the car and saw coolant coming out like the bathroom sink on medium. I also checked the oil and it was fine no emulsion.

I saw my car today. The brand new coolant reservois in the trunk had a huge hole in it from a blow out. The mechanic showed me my broken water pump. He still installed a brand new water pump and thermostat and charged me for that... nice guy.. I am having my car towed to Porsche for a second opinion. I still am not sure why I need a new engine if the car supposedly has a blown head gasket. Can't this be fixed even if it has 126,000 miles on it? Also I don't understand why pressure built up in the coolant system to blow a hole in the reservois.

Thanks for your advice and help.

Bradley

Bradley,

I'm certainly not a Porsche expert, and there are many here who are, but I'm not seeing anything in your words that matches up with a blown head gasket. First of all, steam out of the side vents could be just from coolant ON, not necessarily IN, the engine...like the water pump or a blown out hose spraying the engine. Second, with a blown head gasket you would more than likely have had white smoke pouring out of the exhaust. I'm not sure about the synthetic oil, but usually the oil will foam if there is coolant present also. Running the car for 10 mins. probably wasn't a great idea, but the engine doesn't sound like it overheated or started to seize from coolant in the oil.

I think you'd best get the car to a reputable Porsche dealer or shop. It doesn't sound like the coolant reservoir was fixed properly, and maybe the water pump isn't either. Depending on where the coolant you see leaking below is actually coming from, you may not have as big a problem as you think. Only way to really be sure is to get it to someone who you are SURE knows Porsches and what the heck they are doing. Cheaper is rarely better......

Best of luck......I'll cross my fingers and toes for you......

[986Jim]

Having a blown head gasket will not make white smoke pour out the exhaust. It depends where the HG blew, between two cylinders will not cause white smoke, just low compression and poor running. A HG doesn't always blow to a coolant port. You can also blow the HG to a coolant port and not have coolant pour into the cylinder, only small amounts of air bleed from the cylinder into the coolant system causing pressure to build in the coolant tank pushing coolant out the expansion tank all the time. Also you can burn a descent amount of coolant with no white color in the exhaust.

My talon blows the HG at least once a year because of making 500hp and running 26-30psi of boost. Thats life, you change it and go on. It's not really that big a deal. I o-ringed the block and run a cometic gasket now which fixed the problem.

If you have a blown hg, drop the engine pull the head and change the gasket, so what. I have done head gaskets on my talon in an afternoon and been back driving it that night. Even with pulling the engine and not having done it before, depending on special tools, it should be able to be done in pretty short order. I would still run an OEM gasket (unless cometic makes one which would be nice) and swap out the stock studs with ARP again if made, otherwise run new OEM units. The rest of the stuff is just a re-re would isn't that big a deal. You should be able to do a HG for around $1000 bux even if somebody else is doing it.

There is no reason to buy a new engine because the hg blew. That would be like buying a new engine because the RMS leaks (unless it's ovalized and causing the leak).

http://www.racepages.com/parts/head_gasket/porsche.html - About $50 for the gasket.

[tholyoak]

Unfortunately, if he generated enough pressure in the system to 'blow a hole' in the new coolant tank, it sounds to me as if there is a rather large leak between the cooling system and the cylinders. This could be a head gasket but also could be a cracked cylinder liner. I have a 2.5L engine on a stand in my garage right now that had a cracked cylinder sleeve. From what I have heard, the cylinder cracking is more common than blown head gaskets on these motors. Regardless, driving it in this condition probably did not help and could lead to bent valves in short order. A simple compression/leakdown test will confirm the problem in short order.

Due to the complexity of the cam timing and the need to remove the engine for a head gasket replacement, I highly doubt you will get it done for anywhere near $1000. With the new generation of Porsche engines it is usually more economical to get a remanufactured unit from Porsche than have someone repair it. This is especially true on an engine of this mileage.

Todd

[Richard Hamilton]

I'm sure some of you guys have seen this before, but if not take a look at part 4 of the Hartech Buyers Guide: http://www.hartech.org/buyers.html . There are some good shots of the inside of the engine, and an interesting theory about the causes of cylinder cracking in the M96 engine.

[atmorris]

OK Jim, but if you have a blown HG AND a significant pressurization of the coolant system evident (as he indicated), would that not indicate that the gasket is blown in a manner that would cause coolent to get into the cyllinder as well?

[986Jim]

OK Jim, but if you have a blown HG AND a significant pressurization of the coolant system evident (as he indicated), would that not indicate that the gasket is blown in a manner that would cause coolent to get into the cyllinder as well?

On a boxster yes because they are open deck where the cylinder is surrounded by a collant passage. On a closed deck motor (supra, dsm and other iron block cars) not always. You can blow the hg into a coolant port, and have it small enough that you don't see the coolant burning. When the cylinders are in vacuum it will suck coolant into the cylinder, but not enough so you don't see it burn out the exhaust, during pressurization of the cylinder (combustion cycle) air will leak from the cylinder into the coolant system. You will never see the coolant burning but with enough cycles of the engine small amounts of air are added to the coolant each time. Eventually something's gonna give. With enough boost or HP generally what happens is you blow the HG into a coolant port and coolant comes gushing in like crazy and thats when you see the huge James Bond style smoke screen behind the car. In that case you would never drive far enough to pressurize the system enough to blow the coolant tank.

We blew the HG on my dads maxima (makes 291whp all motor runs 12.4 @ 114 all motor) and one of the back 3 was totally dead, I mean 0 compression, the compression tester wouldn't even move. The car didn't smoke at all though and we were able to normally drive the car all the way home from the track (over 3 hour drive) and it honestly drove almost like normal. The whole cylinder was totally dead the whole time. By the time we got home the coolant system was under a lot of pressure from the air in the system tho. We have a cap on the car with a leaver on it which you flick to releive the pressure but not let coolant out, pretty handy.

Due to the complexity of the cam timing and the need to remove the engine for a head gasket replacement, I highly doubt you will get it done for anywhere near $1000. With the new generation of Porsche engines it is usually more economical to get a remanufactured unit from Porsche than have someone repair it. This is especially true on an engine of this mileage.

Todd

They are not that bad. I have done cams on a VQ35 (350z) which has a chain setup similar and it wasn’t that bad. I re-re’d the whole setup in around 3 hours having never done it before. Somebody with good mechanical skills to could do a HG on these cars in pretty short order I think. I have never done it so I really can’t say how easily, however I did a HG on the VQ35 as well and did it in 10 hours which included a lot of standing around and head scratching time. If I had to do it over again, would be faster. It looks complicated until you do it once or twice, then it's not that intimidating.

I still maintain that you can fix it cheaper than putting in a new engine. A motor is $4000 plus labor to re-re the motor. So for $4000 you should be able to easily do a HG figuring the same labor to pull the motor out and put it back in. There is no way the labor to change a HG on one side of the engine is more than $4000 the cost for a new motor. Even if the job took 20 hours it would still be cheaper than a new motor, no matter house you do the math.

Attached is the Boxster chain vs. the VQ35. Pretty similar and took me 3 hours to re-re it during a cam install. The VQ has variable timing on the gears just like a porsche does with variocam.

Edited April 6, 2007 by 986Jim

[rushrevisited]

sboxter, what was the final result on this? Don't leave us hanging!

[sboxster]

sboxter, what was the final result on this? Don't leave us hanging!

Sorry guys the car has been at Porsche and I actually go it back today!

I had the car towed to the Porsche dealer here for a second opinion. They agreed that it needed a new engine. They felt it had to do with the car overheating causing the lining around the cylinder to distort?? I am not sure if I am saying this correctly. It wasn't as if I drove the car for an hour with no coolant it was a period of 10 minutes but I guess at 126,000 miles maybe it was time. The strange thing is that the engine still ran at the dealership but yet they said I needed a new one. They said it could not hold the pressure.

After much deliberation with a friend of mine who has a 1995 928 I decided on the new engine from Porsche. (My friend has been happy at the local dealer) They gave me a 2 year unlimited mileage factory warranty. I also had the clutch replaced and new Michelin tires put on with an alignment. I also had the coolant system replaced because of the giant hole. I decided on this as I really wanted to keep this car. In retrospect I should have brought the car there to begin with as all they do are Porsche's. The other place had BMW's Audi's, Rolls. I don't see how one mechanic can keep up with all these different vehicles no matter how great he is. This would be difficult for anyone.

I actually picked the car up today (it had been with them for 2 weeks) and drove it home..actually around for several hours and it drives great. I know others may not agree if this was worth it or not. Either way If I sold it as a parts car I would still want another one.

Thanks for your help.

Bradley

2000 arctic silver BoxsterS 6 Speed, Black Interior (not 2001)

[rushrevisited]

sboxter, what was the final result on this? Don't leave us hanging!

Sorry guys the car has been at Porsche and I actually go it back today!

I had the car towed to the Porsche dealer here for a second opinion. They agreed that it needed a new engine. They felt it had to do with the car overheating causing the lining around the cylinder to distort?? I am not sure if I am saying this correctly. It wasn't as if I drove the car for an hour with no coolant it was a period of 10 minutes but I guess at 126,000 miles maybe it was time. The strange thing is that the engine still ran at the dealership but yet they said I needed a new one. They said it could not hold the pressure.

After much deliberation with a friend of mine who has a 1995 928 I decided on the new engine from Porsche. (My friend has been happy at the local dealer) They gave me a 2 year unlimited mileage factory warranty. I also had the clutch replaced and new Michelin tires put on with an alignment. I also had the coolant system replaced because of the giant hole. I decided on this as I really wanted to keep this car. In retrospect I should have brought the car there to begin with as all they do are Porsche's. The other place had BMW's Audi's, Rolls. I don't see how one mechanic can keep up with all these different vehicles no matter how great he is. This would be difficult for anyone.

I actually picked the car up today (it had been with them for 2 weeks) and drove it home..actually around for several hours and it drives great. I know others may not agree if this was worth it or not. Either way If I sold it as a parts car I would still want another one.

Thanks for your help.

Bradley

2000 arctic silver BoxsterS 6 Speed, Black Interior (not 2001)

Thanks for the update Bradley - can you tell us what the engine replacement ran you? I am curious what they are getting now.

[atmorris]

Hey, that's what almost any of us would have done as well. :)

The cylinder wall distortion may or may not have had anything to do with the blown HG, but for the money you had in it, and at 126k on a 2.5L, what the heck. Your probably good for a long, long time now. Enjoy !

[sboxster]

sboxter, what was the final result on this? Don't leave us hanging!

Sorry guys the car has been at Porsche and I actually go it back today!

I had the car towed to the Porsche dealer here for a second opinion. They agreed that it needed a new engine. They felt it had to do with the car overheating causing the lining around the cylinder to distort?? I am not sure if I am saying this correctly. It wasn't as if I drove the car for an hour with no coolant it was a period of 10 minutes but I guess at 126,000 miles maybe it was time. The strange thing is that the engine still ran at the dealership but yet they said I needed a new one. They said it could not hold the pressure.

After much deliberation with a friend of mine who has a 1995 928 I decided on the new engine from Porsche. (My friend has been happy at the local dealer) They gave me a 2 year unlimited mileage factory warranty. I also had the clutch replaced and new Michelin tires put on with an alignment. I also had the coolant system replaced because of the giant hole. I decided on this as I really wanted to keep this car. In retrospect I should have brought the car there to begin with as all they do are Porsche's. The other place had BMW's Audi's, Rolls. I don't see how one mechanic can keep up with all these different vehicles no matter how great he is. This would be difficult for anyone.

I actually picked the car up today (it had been with them for 2 weeks) and drove it home..actually around for several hours and it drives great. I know others may not agree if this was worth it or not. Either way If I sold it as a parts car I would still want another one.

Thanks for your help.

Bradley

2000 arctic silver BoxsterS 6 Speed, Black Interior (not 2001)

Thanks for the update Bradley - can you tell us what the engine replacement ran you? I am curious what they are getting now.

Yes,

Porsche charged me $9105.84 for the engine plus $2200 for the labor, this included troubleshooting it. They gave me 2 years warranty on the engine with unlimited mileage. ...Water pump, power steering etc. everything except AC compressor. I also sprang for a new clutch for $800.00 (No Labor Charge) and 4 new Michelin Tires with a four wheel alignement @$1052.00. I guess you can see I really wanted to keep this!

[sboxster]

Hey, that's what almost any of us would have done as well. :)

The cylinder wall distortion may or may not have had anything to do with the blown HG, but for the money you had in it, and at 126k on a 2.5L, what the heck. Your probably good for a long, long time now. Enjoy !

Andy,

Thanks! Here is a picture of my 2000 BoxsterS: I had some help washing it!

[mikefocke]

Cylinder wall distortion reference

Here

Read the buyers guide, Especially parts 2 through 4.

[sboxster]

Cylinder wall distortion reference

Here

Read the buyers guide, Especially parts 2 through 4.

Interesting reading. Hartech seems like a great dealership. Maybe the cylinder sleeve is a design flaw. What's done is done. I can only enjoy what I have now. This is a good article in that others should be aware of high mileage Boxsters and the increasing potrential of cylinder distortions.

Thanks