top problem with light on

[djomlas]

i have a 98 box.

today the top would not go down. few hours before that the top was down and everythign was fine, put it up and then later on couldnt get the top back down.

the light on the dashboard shows a picture of top open, or whatever the light means.

my parking brake light is on (and when i put it down no response from the button, so that is all good i assume).

so heres whats happening when i try to open the top.

i would push the latch and both windows would go down.

push the button and all i hear is like clicking noise from the back, like its about to lower it but never quite gets there, push button the other way...same scenario.

so far this is what i checked:

fuses seem to be all fine.

and the big relay on top of the fuse box i pulled out and shook/tapped a little, that didnt help either.

i took the top part off where it latches up and sprayed it w contact cleaner hoping that some connections are loose...no help

any other suggestions?

top is now up and latched up, but the light is still on.

[insite]

sounds like your convertible top transmission. maybe one of the cables broke. you will have to disconnect the clamshell and top mechanisms from the motor arms that operate them. this is kind of hard to do from inside the car, but it can be done. once you have done this, manually open the clamshell and manually put the top into its service position. the transmission is under the clamshell just in front of the trunk. it has a cable that goes into each side. my guess is that either one of the cables broke or the transmission is bad. if i had to guess, i'd say the transmission since BOTH sides of the top mechanism quit working. if you need one on the cheap, call german auto dismantlers in georgia.

[djomlas]

this happened to me before, and it started working agin.

how can i make sure that its either one or the other? <- i dont want to buy parts and it turns out that its not whats broken/faulty?

[insite]

this happened to me before, and it started working agin.

how can i make sure that its either one or the other? <- i dont want to buy parts and it turns out that its not whats broken/faulty?

access the transmission. on either side, there is a metal clip that holds the cables into the tranny. remove each one. slide each cable out. if a cable is busted, you will be able to pull it out of its sleeve. to check the transmission, unlatch the convertible top & put the e-brake on. have someone operate the convertible top switch and look inside the transmission to see if the gear is turning (on each side). my gut feel is that the transmission is bad. if it were a cable, your clamshell would have opened unevenly and probably bent in the process.

[Chris_in_NH]

this happened to me before, and it started working agin.

how can i make sure that its either one or the other? <- i dont want to buy parts and it turns out that its not whats broken/faulty?

access the transmission. on either side, there is a metal clip that holds the cables into the tranny. remove each one. slide each cable out. if a cable is busted, you will be able to pull it out of its sleeve. to check the transmission, unlatch the convertible top & put the e-brake on. have someone operate the convertible top switch and look inside the transmission to see if the gear is turning (on each side). my gut feel is that the transmission is bad. if it were a cable, your clamshell would have opened unevenly and probably bent in the process.

this is semi-correct. the metal clips hold the cables into the conv top DRIVE MOTOR, not the transmissions. the transmissions are located on each side of the car. and it is unlikely that both transmissions (L+R) went bad at the same time.

the dash light means that the conv top has not completed its open/close cycle. it is 'in-between' open and closed.

have the cables ever been replaced/upgraded in this car? the older cables (MY97/98, etc.) were notoriously bad, and the sheathing stretched over the drive cable, pushing the drive cable out of the conv top drive motor. this may be the clicking noise you hear.

as insite suggested, remove the brass clips holding the cables into the conv top drive motor. inspect them and make sure there is about 3/4" of drive cable sticking out the end of the sheathing. if there isn't 3/4" sticking out, then the conv top motor won't have enough cable to grab on to.

to open the clamshell manually there are only 2 connections that you need to disconnect. from inside the car, when the top is up, if you look behind the rollbars on each side of the car, you will see a 'wheel' with a V-lever on it. connected to the V-lever will be a black canister-looking piece (looks like a shock absorber, kind of...). the canister is attached to the V-lever by a ball-socket friction. you just need to pry this canister off of the V-lever on both sides of the car to get the clamshell to be disconnected and move freely. there is a tool in the toolkit which should allow you to reach back there. it is the long piece with a red cap on the end. take off the red cap and it becomes a prying device. reach back behind the seats to pry the cansiter off of the V-lever. then you can open the clamshell manually to check your cables.

also see the Conv Top Forum here. this has happened to hundreds of people. and it's either the cables, the drive motor, the transmissions or a microswitch/relay. for me, it was the cables on my 97.

[insite]

this is semi-correct. the metal clips hold the cables into the conv top DRIVE MOTOR, not the transmissions.

my bad. i am indeed refering to the motor.

[djomlas]

i tried looking for the parts you guys describe, looked at pictures in manual, but when i get to my car and look there it doesnt look the same.

so i have no idea what to pry off of what...

[Chris_in_NH]

you won't be able to see the conv top drive motor until you are able to lift the clamshell, so let's concentrate on that. here's a picture of the parts i've described. this is a view of the passenger side of the car. see the circle in the middle of the pic (it has a brass bolt in the middle that has red paint on it)? the piece that connects both arms on either side of the circle is the V-lever (but it's an upside-down V in this picture). attached to the right side of the V-lever is the black canister arm (with a white sticker on it) that you need to disconnect. you disconnect it by popping the end of the canister arm off of the V-lever.

here's a pic of it detached from the V-lever:

since your top is closed you will have to do this via the cabin, reaching back using the tool from the tool kit. depending on your size and flexibility, you can try to do this from in between the roll bar (where the windstop goes), or by taking out the mesh roll bar inserts and reaching thru the seats, or any other way possible. ;)

here's a picture of the pry tool: take the red cap off the end. you could also use whatever will work - a screwdriver, a crowbar (be careful), etc.

ok, take a look at this pic. see that the clamshell is raised, and right in front of where the 3rd brake light is, there is a black box with a cable coming out of each side? that is the conv top drive motor. this is where you want to disconnect the cables to see if you have 3/4" of drive cable sticking out.

now, if you want to be able to open and close your conv top manually, pop these red ball joints off both sides. they are on 'push rods' that connect to the other side of the V-lever (the opposite side of where the canister arms attach). if you follow the V-lever towards the front of the car, you will see the red ball joints. pop them off and the conv top will move freely.

whatever you do, don't push the conv top open/close button unless everything is connected. if you DO push the button, you will likely need to re-time your conv top transmissions.

i hope this helps. by the way, all the info in this message i got from here: http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?showforum=46

Edited March 21, 2007 by Chris_in_NH

[djomlas]

THANK YOU A LOT

man, you dont even want to know what i was about to disconect.

so i jsut stopped and figured i would ask more.

man am i glad i didnt do anything stupid, so i just said to myself, stop it Mladen, and ask some more questions.

thank you again, for a good explanation and pictures.

i will attempt this tomorrow morning after a root canal (ouch)

[Chris_in_NH]

no problem. i had cable troubles once before...

i forgot to mention that the conv top mechanism is symmetrical; both sides (L+R) are identical, so you'll need to pop the canister arms off on both sides of the car, etc.

if you are just going to check your cables, i would leave the red ball joints alone.

popping the canister arms off of the V-lever (on both sides) will allow you to manually lift/lower the clamshell, which will allow you access to the cables/conv top drive motor. keep in mind that the clamshell will be totally 'unlocked' when you remove the canister arms from the V-levers.

if your cables *are* bad, then we get into the really fun part of removing the conv top transmissions, prying out the old cables, installing new cables and re-timing the transmissions. :rolleyes:

i am curious to know if it really is the cables. i would think that the chance of them both going bad at the same time would be incredibly small. if that is the case then you are very lucky. usually what happens is one cable works itself out of the conv top drive motor, and the other cable is fine. so when you push the conv top button, one side is being raised by the motor and the other just sits there. that's when the terrible snapping noises start and Porsche tells you they want $2500 to fix it.

[djomlas]

well how much $ would it be for either one of the scenarios?

[Chris_in_NH]

well how much $ would it be for either one of the scenarios?

i'm not sure which scenarios you're referring to. but to replace the cables (DIY), estimate $100. (if i remember correctly, the cables are $40 each, L+R). the conv top transmissions are expensive - maybe $400 each, but you should be able to find them cheaper. the push arms (the part with the red cap) i think are $40 each side. i'm not sure what a new conv top drive motor costs, but it can't be too much.

[djomlas]

oo ok, i just wanted an estimate to know what i shold be looking at if/when whaever breaks

thx

[djomlas]

heres what was the problem guys.

went to the dealer, and they dont sell the cap alone, but the whole handle thing.

i bought it and installed it, top works fine, but is there any place i can get just the cap? couse thats all i used from the parts i bought, and it was like 70 dollars, i dont think that 70 is a good price for a little white cap.

btw, on the other side its a white cap, passinger side was red

[Chris_in_NH]

a-ha! that will do it! i suspected it wasn't the cables or transmissions, as both failing simultaneously would be unlikely.

so you bought the push-rod with the red cap (ball socket) and installed it. you didn't take the new red ball-socket off of the new push-rod and screw it on to the old push-rod, right? if you did, i would put the white ball-socket back on the new push arm and install the whole thing. the reason for this is because the new push-arm has new rubber bushings. your old push-arm probably has very worn rubber bushings. my 97's did.

unfortunately, you have to buy the whole push-rod/ball socket as one piece. i haven't seen just the ball socket available without the push-rod. i got mine at Sunset Imports for $40. that's where i do most of my shopping. i think they have the best prices out there. also Suncoast Porsche and AutohausAZ.com.

the white ball-sockets are the newer, reinforced plastic. as you have experienced, the red ones break! ;)

the white one installed in your car tells you that the previous owner had conv top problems, and that push-arm was replaced. it might have been the red ball socket breaking or the cables or something else. one thing i would do ASAP is check those cables. if they are not the newer reinforced cables, you will want to get the new cables ASAP, because the old ones WILL eventually stretch, causing you grief.

congrats on your DIY repair! you probably saved yourself $200!

Edited March 22, 2007 by Chris_in_NH

[djomlas]

thx for the reply, and indeed i didnt change the whole shaft, it didnt even coem w a rubber part, i probably will switch it then.

how do i tell if i have old cables or not? and how hard is it to switch them?

Edited March 22, 2007 by djomlas

[Chris_in_NH]

thx for the reply, and indeed i didnt change the whole shaft, it didnt even coem w a rubber part, i probably will switch it then.

how do i tell if i have old cables or not? and how hard is it to switch them?

the rubber part (bushing) is located at the connection point of the V-lever and the push-arm. it was a long time ago when i replaced mine, so i don't remember exactly. if your new push-arm didn't come with a rubber bushing, then i would just leave it as is, as you have nothing to replace the old bushing with.

see this post for cable/transmission info. post #5 gives the part numbers for the new cables, and how to tell if you already have the new cables (diamond texture on the outside). it would be worth your while to read the whole thread(10 times). ;)

as far as difficulty in changing the cables, there is some work involved, as you will see in the linked thread. this includes removing the conv top transmissions, prying out the old cable, installing new cables, re-installing transmissions and re-timing them. since your top works now, you may be able to get away without having to re-time the transmissions, since they are timed correctly right now. you'll have to see when the time comes...

http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=68

[djomlas]

thx a lot, i will inspect those once i have the hardtop off again

[mackguyver]

I'm having a very similar problem and couldn't get my top open until tonight. The driver side is clicking at the very start and the very end and the top won't go all the way down or all the way up. It's closed and latched, but the convertible top light is still on. I tried to work on it tonight but couldn't find the red(/white) cables to save my life. I will have to try again in the light...

In the meantime, is it bad to drive around with the top closed and latched, but with the light still on?