RMS - How much time does it take?

[ivass]

Does anyone know how much billing time does Porsche recomend for replacing the RMS on C2 and C4?

Edited March 15, 2007 by ivass

[LVDell]

Expect to pay between 4-8 hours depending on where you go (indy's and dealer). The biggest expense of the RMS is that labor rate since you have to essentially do the same procedure as replacing the clutch which is why many people get their clutch done at teh RMS time if they need it (or need it soon) since there should be NO additional labor. FYI....when you have your clutch replaced, part of the process SHOULD include both a new RMS and IMS seal.

[PeterK]

An indie place I talked to says that it takes honest 5-6 hours of work for them to do it. Dealer charges porsche for 8 hours

[ivass]

Expect to pay between 4-8 hours depending on where you go (indy's and dealer). The biggest expense of the RMS is that labor rate since you have to essentially do the same procedure as replacing the clutch which is why many people get their clutch done at teh RMS time if they need it (or need it soon) since there should be NO additional labor. FYI....when you have your clutch replaced, part of the process SHOULD include both a new RMS and IMS seal.

Thank you. Champion Porsche just quoted me 10 hours... I guess they are not as good and need more time ... right :)

[LVDell]

Champion quoted you 10 becasue they spend 8 of those 10 hours billing you while they are oogling all over the CGT's in the bay. ANd there are usually several. I was there in November and the garage area has 3, yes 3 CGT's in the bays along with a host of other fine machines. Needless to say I didn't feel so cool in my GT3.

As for your situation I can't believe they are wanting to charge you MORE than the book rate they actually have and wouldn't dare show you. Criminal if you ask me.

[PTEC]

In all reality is probably 4 to 5 hours for a pro who has done it many times to get the job done right.

And I don't understand why people get upset when they find out that dealers mark up labor times. Of course they do. Do honestly think the grocery store didn't mark up the loaf of bread you bought? What about the TV Best Buy sold you? Do you pay for a car only what it cost Porsche to build it? Everything you pay for is marked up. If it wasn't marked up businesses wouldn't make a thin dime. If you're going to vilify the dealer then vilify all business because its the same anywhere you go.

[whs]

In all reality is probably 4 to 5 hours for a pro who has done it many times to get the job done right.

And I don't understand why people get upset when they find out that dealers mark up labor times. Of course they do. Do honestly think the grocery store didn't mark up the loaf of bread you bought? What about the TV Best Buy sold you? Do you pay for a car only what it cost Porsche to build it? Everything you pay for is marked up. If it wasn't marked up businesses wouldn't make a thin dime. If you're going to vilify the dealer then vilify all business because its the same anywhere you go.

Not to get off topic, but I totally disagree with this statement. It is one thing for the dealer to charge you a high rate per hour, but an entirely different thing to charge you both a premium rate per hour and excess hours. I work in a business where I sell my time on an hourly basis and yes my rate per hour is high. However, I NEVER bill for more hours than I spend working for a client. My dealer charges $85/hour. At that rate, I don't expect to be charged excess hours.

Will

[ivass]

In all reality is probably 4 to 5 hours for a pro who has done it many times to get the job done right.

And I don't understand why people get upset when they find out that dealers mark up labor times. Of course they do. Do honestly think the grocery store didn't mark up the loaf of bread you bought? What about the TV Best Buy sold you? Do you pay for a car only what it cost Porsche to build it? Everything you pay for is marked up. If it wasn't marked up businesses wouldn't make a thin dime. If you're going to vilify the dealer then vilify all business because its the same anywhere you go.

This is not about the mark-up, or about how much time "it actually takes" ... it is about Champion charging me 2 extra hours (at $105/h) only because they can. They could charge me 20 extra hours and there is nothing I can do ... if I want the repair to be covered by Porsche. I know that the dealer pays the wage of the mechanic based on the "book" hours, and I don't mind if they make extra money because they are efficient and can do it in less time. I hate, however, when people think that the motto of Porsche enthusiast is "More money than brains," and charge us an arm and a leg just because of the crest.

[PTEC]

In all reality is probably 4 to 5 hours for a pro who has done it many times to get the job done right.

And I don't understand why people get upset when they find out that dealers mark up labor times. Of course they do. Do honestly think the grocery store didn't mark up the loaf of bread you bought? What about the TV Best Buy sold you? Do you pay for a car only what it cost Porsche to build it? Everything you pay for is marked up. If it wasn't marked up businesses wouldn't make a thin dime. If you're going to vilify the dealer then vilify all business because its the same anywhere you go.

Not to get off topic, but I totally disagree with this statement. It is one thing for the dealer to charge you a high rate per hour, but an entirely different thing to charge you both a premium rate per hour and excess hours. I work in a business where I sell my time on an hourly basis and yes my rate per hour is high. However, I NEVER bill for more hours than I spend working for a client. My dealer charges $85/hour. At that rate, I don't expect to be charged excess hours.

Will

Ok, then heres my question. Do you charge a flat rate per job or do you charge straight time? If you charge a flat rate per job, I highly doubt you dont "mark up your labor." If you charge straight time then were not even talking apples to apples because no matter you're doing, while you are at "work" you are always getting paid. Another difference is what the dealer charges is not what the mechanics get paid. Take a quarter of what they charge the customer per hour and you get what the top guy with 20 years experience is getting paid.

[PTEC]

In all reality is probably 4 to 5 hours for a pro who has done it many times to get the job done right.

And I don't understand why people get upset when they find out that dealers mark up labor times. Of course they do. Do honestly think the grocery store didn't mark up the loaf of bread you bought? What about the TV Best Buy sold you? Do you pay for a car only what it cost Porsche to build it? Everything you pay for is marked up. If it wasn't marked up businesses wouldn't make a thin dime. If you're going to vilify the dealer then vilify all business because its the same anywhere you go.

This is not about the mark-up, or about how much time "it actually takes" ... it is about Champion charging me 2 extra hours (at $105/h) only because they can. They could charge me 20 extra hours and there is nothing I can do ... if I want the repair to be covered by Porsche. I know that the dealer pays the wage of the mechanic based on the "book" hours, and I don't mind if they make extra money because they are efficient and can do it in less time. I hate, however, when people think that the motto of Porsche enthusiast is "More money than brains," and charge us an arm and a leg just because of the crest.

Champion isn't doing anything out of the ordinary. Its pretty much concrete policy of all dealerships in all lines of cars to mark up labor on customer pay jobs. Thats just the way it is. It happens with Ferrari and it happens with Kia so don't think Champion is sticking it to you because they think you have money. What you have to understand about book time is that its created by the manufacturer and its what they will pay the dealer for doing a warranty repair, no more no less. Obviously the manufacturer wants to pay out as little as little as possible so they make times which many times are practically impossible for a mechanic to match. This is why "book" time is marked up, because the book is unreasonable for 90% of the repairs because book time doesn't include diagnosis, road testing, cleaning parts, writing estimates or any other miscellaneous things which eat up a lot of time during the course of the repair.