FabSpeed 2nd Cat Bypass Pipes

[gustav356]

Anyone have experience with these yet? I'm considering some for my Cayenne S.

-CO

[gud luk]

Anyone have experience with these yet? I'm considering some for my Cayenne S.

-CO

Great product to add to your vehicle, but dont buy Fabspeed. There are others out there. FS is lost in space and cant get out of their own way.

[Peanuts]

I agree, Fabspeed = no good i lost about 12HP on the dyno (05TT)

do you want more power and torque, get DMS to program your ECU, then you will never sell your car :)

Edited April 28, 2006 by Peanuts

[mudman2]

Ignore those 2 nuts, they are like a pair upset high school girls. Don't put cat bypass pipes on a TT but yes on an S. Fabspeed are fine duk just has an embarrasing story which he blames everyone except himself.

I agree, Fabspeed = no good i lost about 12HP on the dyno (05TT)

do you want more power and torque, get DMS to program your ECU, then you will never sell your car :)

[Porshce Nut]

I agree, Fabspeed = no good i lost about 12HP on the dyno (05TT)

do you want more power and torque, get DMS to program your ECU, then you will never sell your car :)

Peanuts, can you give me more info on the ECU reprogram? is yours a TT or not?

Ignore those 2 nuts, they are like a pair upset high school girls. Don't put cat bypass pipes on a TT but yes on an S. Fabspeed are fine duk just has an embarrasing story which he blames everyone except himself.

I agree, Fabspeed = no good i lost about 12HP on the dyno (05TT)

do you want more power and torque, get DMS to program your ECU, then you will never sell your car :)

Mudman, can you give me more info on your exp. with the S model ECU or cat bypass? I drove a Turbo and I am not too sure that it is worth the money as the HP is really not usable on the street unless you are into drag racing. the lag was a bit of a pain while on the twisties. how about some opinions and thoughts.

[Peanuts]

Porsche Nut, mine is a Cayenne 2005 TT, I have tested TechArt, Ruf, Gemballa, 9ff, and DMS and DMS is quite a bit better than the software from 9ff, and light years from Ruf, TechArt, and Gemballa; Ruf, being the worst of all of them. I am not saying that these other vendors are not good, but this is just a comparison among all of them. With DMS my gas mileage has gone to 13.4 MPG and the lag on the e-throttle is COMPLETELY gone. No more hesitation, no more delay in hard left corners, the Cayenne now is like my 911t, just a monster!

As for mudman2’s comments I do not know him, so I can not comment on his knowledge, or lack off if. I speak facts that I have EXPERIENCED, and I have nothing to gain from ANY of these vendors unlike other people. The only one thing I am sure is that dynos in good hands do not lie, and when I put the Fabspeed bypass on my Cayenne 05 TT I lost 12 hp and a little less than 15 = r x F = r F sin( oo). Both hp and delivery were a lot sharper than stock, and that is why I took them off my car.

If someone pays for shipping I am willing to give the fabspeed away, but be aware that they do not improve the engine’s performance.

[mudman2]

There is little to gain from ECU changes on an S model, on the TT however its most definitley worth it, I know people running at over 530hp and 540ftlbs.

I have the pipes on my S and the gain is most noticeable, especially on spool up, the noise is also a great improvement tho' not as good as CatBack systems I have heard.

On the TT both things are true. HP Loss and seat of the pants feel. Spool up is better from the standstill but overall HP dynos down. Multiple tests done on the left coast confirm this but people still like the feel. I have the dyno results on one TT, but they were done with GIAC fitted so its not really an acid comparison.

Unfortunately the TT pipes will not fit an S so the free offer from Peanuts is no good for you. Peanuts if the offer is still going I can find someone who wants them if you like.

I agree, Fabspeed = no good i lost about 12HP on the dyno (05TT)

do you want more power and torque, get DMS to program your ECU, then you will never sell your car :)

Peanuts, can you give me more info on the ECU reprogram? is yours a TT or not?

Ignore those 2 nuts, they are like a pair upset high school girls. Don't put cat bypass pipes on a TT but yes on an S. Fabspeed are fine duk just has an embarrasing story which he blames everyone except himself.

I agree, Fabspeed = no good i lost about 12HP on the dyno (05TT)

do you want more power and torque, get DMS to program your ECU, then you will never sell your car :)

Mudman, can you give me more info on your exp. with the S model ECU or cat bypass? I drove a Turbo and I am not too sure that it is worth the money as the HP is really not usable on the street unless you are into drag racing. the lag was a bit of a pain while on the twisties. how about some opinions and thoughts.

[Peanuts]

Porsche Nuts, call the people at DMS, they will tell you the FACTS. They do not need or will make up stories.

Robert, the man behind DMS, is a straight shooter. Phil the Rep here in the USA is just like Robert.

If you buy a Cayenne and it does have an e-throttle issue (call it lag, call it hesitation or whatever)

I bet these guys could get your S or V6 to run a lot better than the OEM. If I had gotten 1/2 of what they delivered to my TT I would have been really happy.

As for Fabspeed I tend to believe that if you fail to state the truth like they do “+27.6HP Twin Turbo. Better than any German European systems 100% guaranteed.”

I would not trust them on anything. As a matter of fact, I will call them and ask them for my $$ back since they are 100% guaranteed.

I let you know tomorrow what there is to say about their word.

Mudman2, what makes you think that after insulting me or trying to take a cheap shot at me, I would give you anything…. Please do yourself a favor, stop thinking that the rest of the world is as stupid as you think we are… I have yet to read anything constructive from you, unless of course when you beat your own drum.

[Loren]

Okay folks, let's get this thread back to constructive comments about your experiences and facts.

I personally don't believe any horsepower claims unless it has been proven by an impartial third party.

If this thread continues down the road of personal comments about other members - it will be closed and warnings will be given.

Please, the rules are simple - keep it clean and friendly... and keep it on topic.

[mudman2]

apologies Loren, point taken

Okay folks, let's get this thread back to constructive comments about your experiences and facts.

I personally don't believe any horsepower claims unless it has been proven by an impartial third party.

If this thread continues down the road of personal comments about other members - it will be closed and warnings will be given.

Please, the rules are simple - keep it clean and friendly... and keep it on topic.

[mudman2]

Here is an example, assume 25-27% transmission loss on the numbers.

apologies Loren, point taken

Okay folks, let's get this thread back to constructive comments about your experiences and facts.

I personally don't believe any horsepower claims unless it has been proven by an impartial third party.

If this thread continues down the road of personal comments about other members - it will be closed and warnings will be given.

Please, the rules are simple - keep it clean and friendly... and keep it on topic.

[CTS]

I have been fumbling around the list for a week or two now, and this seems to be a fairly challenging subject for the membership. This exhaust thing is usually not such a controversial subject on most vehicles -- especially with turbo cars. But for some reason, it is here.

So what I read above is that the turbos do NOT benefit from the bypass, but the normally aspirated car does???? That's seems wack; and makes no sense to me -- but I am not speaking from a position of experience with this vehicle. I just can't imagine how the turbo would not benefit from less back pressure with this mod as all other turbo cars I have experience with have benefitted.

So what I am interested in are facts. Has anyone dyno'd their turbo stock, and then put the bypass on and then immediately dyno'd it again? This would be useful information.

Mudman2, you mentioned that you had a bypass on your S and that the "gain was most noticable, especially on spool up...". I am a little confused and can only assume since the S doesn't have a turbine to "spool", you are using "spool" synonymously with perhaps "hesitation"? Also, what does the dyno chart you posted represent? The delta is too significant to represent the bypass only -- which is what this thread was addressing -- I think?

Peanuts, I'll take you up on your free offer (shipping only) and I will do a pre-mod dyno when my TurboS gets in and then dyno directly after install and post the results. I assume the TurboS and the Turbo should have similar results as to this mod -- different numbers maybe, but pro/con conclusion should be the same -- backpressure good or backpressure bad.

Ultimately, I am just trying to gain a little ground with some easy mods. I would like to do it without flashing the ECU (or however they do it), as I don't like the possible warranty ramifications. So, does anyone have this kind of quantifiable evidence with a dyno other than FabSpeed -- bypass only? Can you post the dyno chart if so?

Thanks

P.S. I also posted a question about air intakes and filters on the TT, but was ghosted. Any commnets/advice on this would still be appreciated. Hopefully based on experience and not speculation.

Hope no one is offended by any of this content or tone -- it is not my intent. I'm just tryng to get a handle on this topic through all the emotion and fractional comments.

[mudman2]

I do not own a TT but I know a few people who do.

There is a view that reduced back pressure is bad for a TT, possiblt true.

The car in the example had a GIAC ship fitted by Sharkworks, BMC Air Filters and Fabspeed Cat Bypass Pipes. Basically that TT out performs the stock Turbo S.

All I can say about the Bypass Pipes is that the engine seems faster on pickup, more free revving (I also have BMC filters )on my S (sorry spool was a bad choice of words) others with TT's have said the same.

My deduction is that a Chip/DME and Filters/Exhaust would make your TT S very powerful.

:clapping:

I have been fumbling around the list for a week or two now, and this seems to be a fairly challenging subject for the membership. This exhaust thing is usually not such a controversial subject on most vehicles -- especially with turbo cars. But for some reason, it is here.

So what I read above is that the turbos do NOT benefit from the bypass, but the normally aspirated car does???? That's seems wack; and makes no sense to me -- but I am not speaking from a position of experience with this vehicle. I just can't imagine how the turbo would not benefit from less back pressure with this mod as all other turbo cars I have experience with have benefitted.

So what I am interested in are facts. Has anyone dyno'd their turbo stock, and then put the bypass on and then immediately dyno'd it again? This would be useful information.

Mudman2, you mentioned that you had a bypass on your S and that the "gain was most noticable, especially on spool up...". I am a little confused and can only assume since the S doesn't have a turbine to "spool", you are using "spool" synonymously with perhaps "hesitation"? Also, what does the dyno chart you posted represent? The delta is too significant to represent the bypass only -- which is what this thread was addressing -- I think?

Peanuts, I'll take you up on your free offer (shipping only) and I will do a pre-mod dyno when my TurboS gets in and then dyno directly after install and post the results. I assume the TurboS and the Turbo should have similar results as to this mod -- different numbers maybe, but pro/con conclusion should be the same -- backpressure good or backpressure bad.

Ultimately, I am just trying to gain a little ground with some easy mods. I would like to do it without flashing the ECU (or however they do it), as I don't like the possible warranty ramifications. So, does anyone have this kind of quantifiable evidence with a dyno other than FabSpeed -- bypass only? Can you post the dyno chart if so?

Thanks

P.S. I also posted a question about air intakes and filters on the TT, but was ghosted. Any commnets/advice on this would still be appreciated. Hopefully based on experience and not speculation.

Hope no one is offended by any of this content or tone -- it is not my intent. I'm just tryng to get a handle on this topic through all the emotion and fractional comments.

[Peanuts]

I have done the dyno thing as I do with most of my "upgrades". With the Fabspeed I lost 12.35Hp and 15.26 lb-ft.

I do not do air filters because they are more likely to cause engine damage.

I have tried, as I said before, TechArt, Ruf, Gemballa, 9ff and DMS.

With DMS I am at 536.31 HP and 543.2lb-ft boost was a bit higher than .9 bars (when I say a bit higher than .9 bars is more than .9 but less than 1, no lag at all.

With 9ff I was at around 515 Hp and 520lb-ft boost at a little better than .8 bars and about 80% of the lag fixed

TechArt, Ruf, Gemballa were all around 505-510 hp 507-512 lb-ft. with not much of a hit on MPG, 1-3 less miles per gallon, and a bit less than 70% of the lag.

With DMS I am taking a bigger hit 2-4 less miles per gallon than stock, and I can not comment on the oil consumption yet because I have only 300+mi with this new software.

I ride this car as my 911t, and my dealer has seen the engine on the 3/4th temp range for about 20-30 minute run with me driving ;) and then with the dealer’s main engineer.

They called Porsche and the only fix was to get the bigger intercoolers if I was going to ride the Cayenne as I did with them. So I have changed my intercoolers for the ones on the Powerkit and that has helped quite a bit on the engine temp.

I want to make sure that you understand that I have no relationship with any vendor besides the fact that they take my $ and I get their product. I do not get any kickbacks, or special deals.

All the vendors or tuners delivered what they promised with the one exception, but as Loren said that does not mean that the rest of his products are bad.

I will be upgrading my 911t with 9ff this summer or early fall, I am going back home in July and their factory is not very far from my parents; and next week i am upgrading the breaks on the Cayenne (both fron and rear)

i hope it helps

Edited May 2, 2006 by Peanuts

[CTS]

Thanks for the solid replys. Interesting.

When I first looked at the TT and the TTS (on paper), I noted that I could get a great deal on a slightly used TT and modify it to a 'virtual TTS' and end up with HP/TRQ like the TTS, only cheaper. However, it wasn't a LOT cheaper (looking at brakes and intercoolers as well)(i.e. RUFs package); plus other suspension changes would not be present. Since I am looking to have it for a while, I also wanted specific color, sport pkg, wheels, etc -- so I elected to order.

It's interesting how nebulous the 'exact' differences between the TT and the TTS are noted in public material. As best I as I can tell at this point, the differences are as follows:

Intercoolers

Brakes

Front suspension components (minor) and "tuning"

Different ECU maps

Different suspension software

'Possibly' different turbo "internals" (??? -- no consensus)(I don't know if these means same housings, but different compressor and/or turbine wheels)

Does anyone disagree with this or know of other differences?

In any case, I thought that even though I came out of the gate with a larger $ number, I believed I had a solid foundation to work with over the TT alone. Since the turbos are mostly purported to the the same in both (except for possible internals?), DMS (and others) step 1A is to simply raise boost. However, I suspect that is what Porsche has done on the TTS already and since that is the primary benefit of what DMS (and others) do aftermarket, their upside may be capped on the TTS. -- but with Porsche, more focus on emissions perhaps. Soooo, I am speculating that the TTS may not benefit as much from an aftermarket tune the way a TT does.

Are there any TTS' on the list or does anyone know of a tuned TTS out there?

Peanuts, who is your contact at DMS? I emailed a guy overseas, but I thought I remember you saying you had a domestic contact?

Any comments anyone has about TT vs. TTS and ultimately, possible modifications and benefits for a TTS are greatly appreciated? Thanks again.

[Filledukke]

If I remember correct, there is a TSB dealing with some vibration issues on factory (dealer) upgraded cars from TT to TTS. This TSB (or recall) mention som components in the steering servo which have to be changed.

[Peanuts]

CTs, i went to the dealer to get a Cayenne TTs the week before I installed the DMS upgrade becasue of the leftover lag on my tt 9ff, and according to the dealer the TTs is a TT with the powerkit and better ecu mappings. I am not trying to say that the TTS is not a good buy, but i will need something a lot better than what i have (with either the 9ff or DMS software upgrade) for me to get a new cayenne.

When i called 9ff to check if their turbos for the cayenne were upto par with the ones on the TTs i was told that they are the same as the ones on the TT. i will ask the dealer about installing the TTs turbos on mine to see what they say :D

this is the way to find out....at least for me.

I let you know next week about what the dealer has to say about the turbos.

Phil's email address is Philydms@aol.com (the official email is Pyoung@dmsautomotive.us i believe)

[panameras]

Peanuts and other TT owners, any of you tried or are running Giac software? they have developed a program for cayenne turbo now, just wondering how does it compared to DMS. Its a little cheaper than the DMS version, at least in Australia it is. Thanks

[beemaze]

Thanks for the solid replys. Interesting.

When I first looked at the TT and the TTS (on paper), I noted that I could get a great deal on a slightly used TT and modify it to a 'virtual TTS' and end up with HP/TRQ like the TTS, only cheaper. However, it wasn't a LOT cheaper (looking at brakes and intercoolers as well)(i.e. RUFs package); plus other suspension changes would not be present. Since I am looking to have it for a while, I also wanted specific color, sport pkg, wheels, etc -- so I elected to order.

It's interesting how nebulous the 'exact' differences between the TT and the TTS are noted in public material. As best I as I can tell at this point, the differences are as follows:

Intercoolers

Brakes

Front suspension components (minor) and "tuning"

Different ECU maps

Different suspension software

'Possibly' different turbo "internals" (??? -- no consensus)(I don't know if these means same housings, but different compressor and/or turbine wheels)

Does anyone disagree with this or know of other differences?

In any case, I thought that even though I came out of the gate with a larger $ number, I believed I had a solid foundation to work with over the TT alone. Since the turbos are mostly purported to the the same in both (except for possible internals?), DMS (and others) step 1A is to simply raise boost. However, I suspect that is what Porsche has done on the TTS already and since that is the primary benefit of what DMS (and others) do aftermarket, their upside may be capped on the TTS. -- but with Porsche, more focus on emissions perhaps. Soooo, I am speculating that the TTS may not benefit as much from an aftermarket tune the way a TT does.

Are there any TTS' on the list or does anyone know of a tuned TTS out there?

Peanuts, who is your contact at DMS? I emailed a guy overseas, but I thought I remember you saying you had a domestic contact?

Any comments anyone has about TT vs. TTS and ultimately, possible modifications and benefits for a TTS are greatly appreciated? Thanks again.

With regards to the differences between the TT and TTS, we (Marc at AMS and myself a customer) studied this issue extensively by comparing parts numbers and from official Porsche parts guides, and pretty much so came to the same conclusion. We are not too sure if the primary catalytic converters are different however. The turbos themselves are the same.

That being said, less restrictve primary cats and bigger turbochargers would be your best bet for significant hp/torque gains. Or just trade up to an '08 turbo with that sweet DFI!!

[winkelhock]

Hi all,i am from Singapore and i am driving a CTT.I had DMS flown in to tune it when my car when stock with only BMC air filter.It had superb increase in power and torque.However after that i ordered the 2nd cat. bypass and also full exhaust system from Milltek to be fitted on my car.The finish of Milltek's products are very nice.But after fitting them up,i can feel that on the lower end the car is much more sluggish then w/o the exhaust system as there are little back pressure and thus results on losing low end toque,i am considering to dismantle the 2nd cat and have the orig one fitted back or i will consider to have after market sports cat fitted /weld up onto the cat bypass..but it will be very messy and ugly.Therefore my conclusion for a CTT is that have the ECU remapped by renowned tuners for power increase,and have the mufflers replce for better music to the ears and do not even think of replaceing the 2nd cat. unless u are goping to coupled them with a full engine conversion which means replacing the turbos ,intercoolers etc if not never never touch them,i had made that mistake and $600 poorer not forgetting all the hassles .....

Really u dun need to dyno the car to know that u have lost power,put yr right feet on the pedal and u will notice,it is that obvious....

Edited February 7, 2007 by winkelhock

[BobbySpeed]

Put them on my V6 and improved the throttle response. The new exhaust note is cool too- without resonating in the cabin. Look at Youtube for videos.

[Cayenne17]

Put them on my V6 and improved the throttle response. The new exhaust note is cool too- without resonating in the cabin. Look at Youtube for videos.

i agree with bobby i have the car-newal.com bypass pipe i like the sound as well

u tube

[medtech]

I can tell you that they sound GREAT!

Seems to improve pedal response.

I doubt any real HP gains.

I was dissappointed that for the money they didn't send ANY hardware, and customer service sucks.

Also keep in mind that you may need a muffler shop to fabricate new hangers. Not Sure on the S, but my V6 needed it. Otherwise you could stress the connection to the headers and that would be an expensive repair.

Medtech

[panameras]

Hi all,i am from Singapore and i am driving a CTT.I had DMS flown in to tune it when my car when stock with only BMC air filter.It had superb increase in power and torque.However after that i ordered the 2nd cat. bypass and also full exhaust system from Milltek to be fitted on my car.The finish of Milltek's products are very nice.But after fitting them up,i can feel that on the lower end the car is much more sluggish then w/o the exhaust system as there are little back pressure and thus results on losing low end toque,i am considering to dismantle the 2nd cat and have the orig one fitted back or i will consider to have after market sports cat fitted /weld up onto the cat bypass..but it will be very messy and ugly.Therefore my conclusion for a CTT is that have the ECU remapped by renowned tuners for power increase,and have the mufflers replce for better music to the ears and do not even think of replaceing the 2nd cat. unless u are goping to coupled them with a full engine conversion which means replacing the turbos ,intercoolers etc if not never never touch them,i had made that mistake and $600 poorer not forgetting all the hassles .....

Really u dun need to dyno the car to know that u have lost power,put yr right feet on the pedal and u will notice,it is that obvious....

Thanks for sharing that. Saved me from spending $600 on lossing torque.

[roberinot]

I have been trying to find the answer to this question for a while and mostly have only come across info for TURBO Cayennes and V6 Cayennes.  I have a 2008 Cayenne S (NON TURBO) and would like to know if it is worth the money to buy the hhrproducts bypass kit, intake kit, and open filters for my cayenne.  Anyone have a thought or suggestion on that?

 

In short what I'm wondering is if there is actual gain and not just advertised gain.