My friend wants to buy a used P-car

[jimmy1117]

Dear all,

My friend wants to buy a 03 C2(black) from a private party. The car is about one year old since the original purchase date. Only 5k miles. He asked me for my opinion and advise. :help:

I own a P-car but it does not make me a good mechanic nor inspector. :unsure:

I know that it should be better to bring the car to a dealership for inspection. If this is not an option, what should we do and can we do at least to make sure there is no big problem on this car? (besides test-drive)

Please help !

:help: :help: :help:

[Guest]

I'm not a mechanic but I would check tire wear I'd even check tire pressure. IMHO that's a bellweather for someone who cares for his/her car. Ask if the car has been in an accident of any kind. Records, if any...check engine case for any oil residue (precursor to future problems). I'd also be curious as the the real reason the party wants to sell. And a thorough test drive after test driving another similar vehicle. Also impressions of the original owner are important.

But then again, I'm paranoid! :)

[Itzkirb]

How much is he buying it for?

[jimmy1117]

Oops, it looks like not too many people would like to give me their advise....... :(

Please feel free to say something or share your experience in buying a used P-car as that will help me to help my friend. He is so desperate ....(I know it is always better to buy a new one, but the reality...... sigh)

Edited February 13, 2004 by jimmy1117

[jimmy1117]

How much is he buying it for?

Right now they are negotiating between 65K ~ 67K.

2003 C2 (black/black)

I think the MSRP is about $88K.

very nice options:

Black full leather

Power/memory seat

Xenon

Metal Door Sill

Alum. Dials,

18" Lt. Alloy wheels

Rear wiper

PSM

Bose sound

Supple Leather

and

$5000+ Exclusive Options:

Black Mats

Carrera Rear Spoiler

Painted Center console

Porsche Crest in Headrests

Alum. Shift, E-Brake

I think he may evantually agree the seller's asking price..... but the most important thing is to buy a good(reliable) P-car, not the 1 or 2 grands difference, right?

:(

Edited February 13, 2004 by jimmy1117

[Tool Pants]

Tell your friend to buy Kirby's 2003 C2 so he can buy a GT3. But Kirby has a tip because he does not know how to shift.

In my mine a car with only 5k miles is new and there is about 3 years of the warranty left. Can't think of anything special to look for. Perhaps a puddle of oil on the ground. :D

Almost forgot.....

[jimmy1117]

Tool Pants,

I don't quite understand the attached Pix. Could you explain the reason you attached it? :rolleyes:

Thanks :D

Oh, by the way, the reason the seller wants to sell the C2 is he is getting a GT3....

Edited February 13, 2004 by jimmy1117

[Tool Pants]

I don't quite understand the attached Pix.  Could you explain the reason you attached it? :rolleyes:

Because of the range 2 over revs which are not good for an engine. I do not care about range 1. If I was buying a used car with just 5k miles it would probably be the only thing I would check. Because if I bought the car I am stuck with the range 2 number if something were to go wrong down the road and Porsche wanted to give me a hard time.

Here is another guy that needs to learn how to shift. :lol:

[jimmy1117]

Wow, I have nerver seen this kind of information...... :o

"Over Rev" -- Did you mean over the redline?

why a "-1" number for Range 1?

Can you explain more details about the Range 1 and Range 2, or more on the PST2? Is there any place I can learn more about this?

:D

So, this kind of info can only be obtained by sending the car to P dearlership for inspection? Or I can request it from Dealership by giving them the VIN?

Edited February 13, 2004 by jimmy1117

[BobbyBBB]

I'm interested too.

[Tool Pants]

The car has to be hooked up to the Porsche System Tester 2 (PST2). The information is stored in the car's computer - the DME. And before you ask, it cannot be changed or erased. ;) You can also see that there are 3 engine operating hour displays. Total hours. Hours since last range 1. And hours since last range 2.

Our cars have an electronic rev limiter, which many other cars have. Under acceleration you cannot rev up your engine to, let's say, 9,000 rpm and blow it up. At whatever rpm the limiter is set to it will cut fuel to 1/2 of the cylinders when the limit is reached to protect the engine. That is range 1. Also, if you look at test reports for cars it will tell you that the top speed was electronically limited - because once the rev limiter is on you cannot go faster. Some of the chips you see for sale that claim more hp simply raise the rev limit or remove the rev limit from the DME - not a good thing in my mind.

The problem is the rev limiter cannot work if the engine rpms are drive by something other than the gas pedal. So if you miss a down shift and go, say, from 6th to 1st at 100 mph , the rpms go way up and the rev limiter cannot stop it and you can damage the engine. That is range 2. We call this rpms driven by the rear wheels.

I cannot see how you can damage an engine in range 1. But you can in range 2. We had a tech session last year in Santa Cruz at Tim Benson's shop and he hooked up about 20 cars to the PST2. The guys who claimed they never missed a shift changed their story when shown the proof. I should also say that you can have range 2 without any damage. There are many cars with range 2 and they run just fine.

This is my 1997 Boxster with 49k miles. I will confess to having missed a shift or two at low speeds, but it was such that I did not get into range 2 and that is why you see just dashes and no numbers.

BMW has the same thing. I found this pic on a BMW site. Racing conditions detected. Must be fun to see that when your BMW is towed in with a damaged motor and you claim you did nothing wrong.

[jimmy1117]

Tool Pants,

Thank you very much for giving this detailed explanation.

Is there any way to get this info on a car besides you bring a PST2 to hook up on the car? Do you think the P-Service dept. will give me this info if I gave them the VIN?

Thanks again.

[Tool Pants]

They have to have the car to read the info from the car's computer. They can't do anything with the VIN.

Tell your friend to buy Kirby's car. I do not think it is possible to get in range 2 with a tip unless there is a mechanical failure. He really does want a GT3 if he can get his price for his C2.

I see you wanted to know about a minus 1 in range 1. That was the first time I have ever seen that and Peter has never seen it. I asked the owner a bunch of questions when I saw it. He was racing his car, spun 180 degrees, and the car went backwards. I though his motor ran backwards. But Peter said this is not possible. Then Peter though maybe the counter looks like that when it runs out of digits. There is no absolute answer, outside of Germany.

[Dr. T]

This site and ebook were very helpful when I purchased my 2003 996TT : 911 secrets

Good luck,

-Glen

Edited February 13, 2004 by Dr. T

[Itzkirb]

Yup! This beauty can be yours for the not-so-bargin price of $72,500! Not exactly the deal of the century, but I gaurantee the car is in excellent condition! ;)

I'm actually thinking about keeping the car. I like it! :jump:

[jimmy1117]

Yep,

I totally agree that Kirby's C2 is a very nice one I have ever seen. I like his car. I will tell my friend, but most likely he probably won't be able to go up to $72K. Actually, he is struggling $67K(the seller's price)

How do you guys think about that from MSRP $88K --> $67K after one year and 5K miles? Do our cars depreciate so much? :(

I think, sometimes, you may be freaked out when something is way too cheap..... :eek:

[Tool Pants]

Once the car leaves the showroom it takes a price beating. With the dot com bust there is a glut of Porsches on the market.

When I started out 5 years ago you had to wait almost a year to get a car and delaers were trying to get $10k over list on the Boxster. Not like that any more.

[Itzkirb]

67k is a good price, you might want to try for $65k.

[jimmy1117]

67k is a good price, you might want to try for $65k.

That is exactly what I thought. My friend is fighting with the seller for $65K..... no result yet.

[jimmy1117]

Once the car leaves the showroom it takes a price beating.  With the dot com bust there is a glut of Porsches on the market.

Sigh, :( I am one of the dot com engineer...... poor me. Started working from 2001, catched all the downtrend

[dakar34]

If your friend loves the car the way it is, then it's a mistake to walk away over $2K of $65K. If there are comprimises about the car (color, interior, etc) then keep looking.

[jimmy1117]

I think the only comprise is that he likes "Supple" leather but the car does not have this opt.... To me, it is no big deal.

[Jet993tt]

I think he can do better. Just bought a 2003 C2 with 3500 miles from Porsche dealer for $57500 (List was $82K). Had car Certified so final was $59 with warranty coverage into mid-2009. Car is excellent. Tell him to keep negotiating.

How much is he buying it for?

Right now they are negotiating between 65K ~ 67K.

2003 C2 (black/black)

I think the MSRP is about $88K.

very nice options:

Black full leather

Power/memory seat

Xenon

Metal Door Sill

Alum. Dials,

18" Lt. Alloy wheels

Rear wiper

PSM

Bose sound

Supple Leather

and

$5000+ Exclusive Options:

Black Mats

Carrera Rear Spoiler

Painted Center console

Porsche Crest in Headrests

Alum. Shift, E-Brake

I think he may evantually agree the seller's asking price..... but the most important thing is to buy a good(reliable) P-car, not the 1 or 2 grands difference, right?

:(

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[simon9985]

Hi

This is davidbrain

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davidbrain

Edited January 29, 2009 by Loren
Removed commercial link - please re-read the board rules