Brake Pedal feeling

[rsa911]

To the brake experts out there:

I'm "surprised" by my brake pedal hardness...

let me explain:

I personally feel I need to push it "hard" to get the car braking (compared to other cars)

Car is a ROW MY04 996 C4S with about 9k miles on it, completely stock (no mods)

I come from a 993TT where the brake pedal was in my opinion "softer", no need to push it hard to get the car braking to a satisfactory level

The brake pads are still the first set and my mechanic laughed at me when i suggested they may need to be changed <_<

It's been a while since I drove a 996 so I can't remember if the other 996s I've tried before had the same behaviour or not...

so if you also previously owned a 993, please tell me how you think the brakes in your 996 feel in comparison !

Thanks for your help

[CosmosC4S]

That is exactly what I thought when I first got my 02 C4S.

Coming from a BMW 540i where the brakes are super sensitive, and only needs little effort,

you could feel the pads biting and pulling on the rotors.

I discovered I needed to push harder to stop the C4S, and the feeling is totally different.

So when I got the car for a full annual service, I told my mechanic about it,

Pads and rotors were good, he replaced the brake fluid with blue racing fluid.

Tested it and told me the brakes work beautifully.

But when I drove it home...it felt the same as before! And to think that these are the Turbo brakes!?

I am still disappointed, comparing it to the BMW brakes. I'm learning to live with it.

[rsa911]

That is exactly what I thought when I first got my 02 C4S.

Coming from a BMW 540i where the brakes are super sensitive, and only needs little effort,

you could feel the pads biting and pulling on the rotors.

pfeww , I'm happy to see I'm not the only one with the feeling :-)

your description is exactly what I feel, so well I'll learn to live with it and stop bugging my dealer about it

I'll try to get a 997 for a quick eval and compare both...

thanks for your input

[Izzy]

My experience is only on 996's (1999 adn 2003), but I do know that when I change pads from regular (dealer) pads to Pagid Orange for track days the brakes work very fast and the car stops a lot quicker. Takes some time to re-learn how hard to hit the brakes in city driving with the pagids. Then after track, going back to OEM pads, it also takes some time to remember to brake with more time and the brakes do feel softer.

I am telling you in case you want to experiment with different pads and get a feeling you like, and can get more comfortable with it. The only downside is the more aggresive pads tend to be noisier.

This company has the lowest pricing for Pagids I have found on-line, in case you want to give it a try. Different colors have different bites.

http://rennstore.com/

[mpikounis]

I have exactly the same feeling. Coming from a BMW Z4 I was expecting much better brakes but the feeling was that I need to try much harder to brake. I recently changed the brake fluid and I think it feels a little bit better now, but don't expect much improvement. I guess the advantage of Porsche brakes compared to other manufacturers (eg BMW) is they last for more than 3-4 laps when others fade.

[racerx]

Had the exact same feeling on my first 996, coming from a BMW. On my second 996 now which has the same brake feel. It takes a little getting used to on the street. My opinion is that the brakes though are designed for hard driving and on track that extra pressure that you need to get the brakes to grab translates into an ability to modulate the brakes with an accuracy greater than you can with brakes set up more for street use (like the BMW). I think you will find you will really like the brake feel with time, particularly when heel and toeing on the track!

[deschodt]

Funny how it goes.. I get the opposite feeling when I drive other brands... You barely touch the brake pedal and BAM, your face is in the windshield. My wife's bimmer was like that...

I appreciate the 911 brakes because they are easy to modulate. I think the other brands have an artificially boosted feel that makes you *think* the brakes are better because they slam you on the windshield if you just brush them. I see this as lack of sensitivity... In reality, the porsche brakes have proven over and over they are among the best in the business and fade very little. Don't be afraid to hit them hard, that's what they teach you on the track. Hit'em hard and relieve pressure progressively to modulate your braking you approach your turning point !

Also a good place to point out that "good" brakes (turbo vs. regular) contribute nothing to shorter stopping distances. What does is the tire compound mostly, good brakes' main advantage is mostly fade resistance (or savings in unsprung weight). Anyhow, no, coming from other P-cars, the 996 brakes feel fairly typical, if you think they feel wrong, try a 356 or an early 911, rock hard ! ;-)

I recall a few rides at Sebring in stock 996s (before I got mine) with stock brakes but R-compound tires, the violence of the braking made it feel like somebody had thrown an anchor ;-) I could not believe stock brakes were that good - but it was mostly the tires !

Edited January 11, 2007 by deschodt

[boxstermao]

this topic caught my interest coz my row 99 c4 also exhibits the same brake feel. mine feels as if the car wont stop at high speeds. had them inspected and were told they were fine. i posted my concern on this forum a while back and was told to check my calipers as they may be corroded due to lack of use. i flushed the fluid twice with little improvement. calipers are not servicable i discovered later. could it be the tires? or if i try diffrent (harder,noisier) pads wud work? i got the car with only 11,000kms and only use it on weekends. inputs wud be appreciated

[nycebo]

Funny how it goes.. I get the opposite feeling when I drive other brands... You barely touch the brake pedal and BAM, your face is in the windshield. My wife's bimmer was like that...

I appreciate the 911 brakes because they are easy to modulate. I think the other brands have an artificially boosted feel that makes you *think* the brakes are better because they slam you on the windshield if you just brush them. I see this as lack of sensitivity... In reality, the porsche brakes have proven over and over they are among the best in the business and fade very little. Don't be afraid to hit them hard, that's what they teach you on the track. Hit'em hard and relieve pressure progressively to modulate your braking you approach your turning point !

I was going to write a very lengthy post saying the same thing, but instead, now, I'll just say: DITTO! EXACTLY!

[rsa911]

Guys,

my point was not that p-cars brakes feeling is wrong but rather the totally different feeling between the "old" generations like the 993 and the latest water cooled models...

As stated, I previously owned a 993TT and the feeling was more like what others describe as the "BMW" style

I'm curious to see if some have an technical explanation on this difference...

Izzy mentionned pagid pads that would change the feeling but I'm "scared" by the pads noise as I'm a city driver and don't plan to track the car...

[MechanicalEng]

I had a 2000 Mustang GT back when I was in college. I could easily overheat the brakes with 3 panic stops. For me the brakes in my 02' C2 are simply awesome!, the pedal is hard and 100% fade free, they inspire so much confidence and the feedback you get from them is just out of this world.. I test drove a 03 M3 before getting my C2 and I found the brakes to be not as strong as the ones in a C2...

[GOB]

I too came from a BMW (M Coupe with Metal Master brake pads) and I can't stand the feeling of the brakes on my C2. I thought "something" was wrong, so I went ahead and got new brake lines, new pads (Mintex Red Box), new fluid (ATE Super Blue) and new tires (needed them anyways, got sticky Falken Azenis RT-615), properly bedded them all in and I STILL don't like the way my car brakes. For some reason or another that "instant BAM your head on the windshield" feeling is not there and I particularly like it. I can brake and invoke the ABS, but the rate of deceleration seems to be about half as much as it used to be on my prior car. One of these days, I am going to get off my lazy butt and actually measure my braking distances from certain speeds and report back. I drove a 2003 M3 Cabrio the other day and it was the same feeling as my old M Coupe. I also drove a 997 GT3 a few weeks ago and those brakes are unbeleivable (all relatively slow stops). The best way I can describe my frustration is as if the discs and pads are "glazed" and the rate of deceleration (braking ability) is more adequate for say a diesel VW compact car?! Any suggestions? Don't want to spend the $600 on discs to see if that is what the problem is as they are way within spec. Close to 8 years ago, I used to hammer my dad's 993 C2S and his 996 at Sebring and those brakes never seemed to fade and always ready to haul down, but not the case in my specific car. The head tech for the local stealership says the brakes are O.K. on my car and he finds no fault in them.

[99C2_Riyanto]

I test drove a 95 C2 Cab (993) and 99 C2 coupe (996) and finally decided on the 996. I did not feel the 996's brake pedal effort was harder. In fact, maybe slightly the opposite. I felt ALL pedals in the 993 required more effort. Clutch pedal was stiffer. Brake pedal needed some more pressure than the 996 to get the same seat-of-the-pants stopping feeling.

I think it was just seat-of-the-pants feeling though. I'm willing to bet the stopping distances weren't much different between these cars.

[therecklesswanderer]

I test drove a 95 C2 Cab (993) and 99 C2 coupe (996) and finally decided on the 996. I did not feel the 996's brake pedal effort was harder. In fact, maybe slightly the opposite. I felt ALL pedals in the 993 required more effort. Clutch pedal was stiffer. Brake pedal needed some more pressure than the 996 to get the same seat-of-the-pants stopping feeling.

I think it was just seat-of-the-pants feeling though. I'm willing to bet the stopping distances weren't much different between these cars.

Well if I can put in my 2 cents, I have a 996 C2 and a 996 GT3, and the breaking on each car is completely different. The GT3 has huge breaks compared to the Carrera, and I guess it comes down to track vs. street. I find the Carrera better because there is more flexibility, rather than just a no break/full break type feeling.

But both cars are 996, the C2 is a 03 and the GT3 is an 04. I know the breaks are red on the GT3 and gray on the Carrera, so maybe it is a totally different breaking system.