PIWIS detecting Tuner Chips?

[djwhite]

I've recently had somebody tell me that PCA is going to start using PIWIS to scan cars at all upcoming events for aftermarket tuning software on the ECU. I'm having trouble wrapping my head around how this is possible. Since most tuners retain OE values, and display same paramaters as OE software, a simple scan would not show any change. This includes flash counters which are not usually triggered by tuners. The only possible way as I see it would be to either do a checksum on the file and compare it to ALL known factory files for that model/year. Which could be many. or do a actual binary comparison of the file in ROM against all known OE files.

here is a quote from a tech:

"The new PIWIS software now has two built in functions that will check for any re-chipping and report it. All of the vender's such as Revo, GIAC etc are all detectable. Porsche had already issued a bulletin when the 996 Turbo first came out that any DME (ECU) tampering will void the warranty. I'm only offering this information to update everyone on the current capabilities with PCNA." ... "I will be at the Daytona PCA event October 12 - October 15 and would gladly talk to anyone that will attend. This will be the first event in which 1996 and newer cars will be checked for DME compliance."

I don't race in PCA, so i'm not trying tp get around any rule enforcement measures...I'm just trying o understand the technology for my own clarification. Does anybody with PIWIS experience know how true this is? I have played with it a bit scanning a few "chipped" cars and found no such capability myself.

Thanks

Dave w

[Loren]

From the TSB...

Concern: Tampering with DME map data.

Information: Modifications to the hardware and software of the DME control module is not allowed.

Any alterations in the electronics or software (e.g. in order to improve the engine performance) may

have various effects, including a change in the permissible values for fuel consumption or exhaust and

noise emissions.

Starting with MY’02 911 Turbo (996) and MY’02 911 (996), you are able to perform a system test to

see whether the DME map data has been tampered with.

PST2 software version 12.0 and higher is able to perform this function.

Tampering with the DME map data will void the warranty.

Work Procedure: 1. Connect PST2 to the diagnostic socket; switch on the PST2.

2. When the PST2 is operational, select the Vehicle type from the Start menu.

3. Start the Automatic control unit search and wait until the search is completed.

4. In the function “Control units”, select DME.

5. In the menu “Function selection”, select “Control unit programming”.

6. Then select “System check”.

7. Then enter the old DME code. (The code obtained from IPAS)

8. The PST2 now states “Switch off ignition”.

9. The PST2 now states “Switch on ignition”.

10. After the system check, the following text appears in the info box in the PST2 display:

11. “Data record is OK” – indicates that there is no tampering.

12. “Data record was tampered with” – indicates that there is tampering.

13. Use the “ESC” button to return to the Start menu.

To me this would only affect cars with DME 7.8 and newer (MY02 and newer). And... it would appear that Porsche (through IPAS) keeps a checksum code of the original DME program and any "authorized" DME upgrades.

[djwhite]

Thanks for the TSB its helpful...but I think it comes down to theory vs reality. Yes in theory there is a function that runs checksum...I think it uses a MD5 hash value actually. But in reality it doesn't actually detect most chips because of specific meaures taken to circumvent detection. Of course various tuners use different techniques to accomplish their goals. Some edit the bosch code directly, some write a whole new program and replace the OE one, some put new tables only in empty areas of the ROM and direct the OE program to access the values, some use mutiplier tables to alter output signals....some of these being more detectable than other depending on other steps taken to make them stealth. I ran a full report on a GIAC chipped car recently w/ PIWIS and nowhere did it show up in any of the DME modules..REVO still claims in their lititure to be undetecatable as well.

have you run the quoted proceedure with PST2 on any chipped cars??

thanks

dw

[Loren]

have you run the quoted proceedure with PST2 on any chipped cars??

No, never tried. But I likely will on the next DME 7.8 I see that is chipped.

[djwhite]

have you run the quoted proceedure with PST2 on any chipped cars??

No, never tried. But I likely will on the next DME 7.8 I see that is chipped.

Here are screen shots that I was given of an 04 GT3 with Revo software hooked up to a PIWIS:

It seems that PIWIS picked up the DME changes even though Revo claims their software to be undetectable... ????

dw

[wrljet]

FWIW, that CVN check is required by OBD-II after a certain date.