Will ATE Blue brake build void my warranty?

[jicko]

I had a brake pedal not returning problem, so we flush/bleed the brake system w/ ATE SuperBlue.... it didn't help. (the fluid that came out wasn't dirty or bubblily at all... actually seems pretty new to us)

Now I had the car in a Porsche dealership, and they think that it is the Brake Booster problem, and they will replace the Brake Booster (will be paid by my extended warranty). They told me that the extended warranty will pay for "standard Porsche fluid", but they want to charge me $115 of labor for additional time to "flush" the brake system cuz I have non Porsche approved ATE Blue brake fluid in there....

Is this BS or is this "just the way" it is? :cursing:

Isn't ATE SuperBlue also DOT4 and it is equal (if not better) than the standard brake fluid?

Pls :help:

[LVDell]

That is CRAP! That is the equivalent of them telling you that your warranty is voided for using a higher than 93 octane gas. They are feeding you a line of crap and seeing if you are just naive enough to just pay it. I am not sure about the process to change out the brake booster and if it involves draining the fluid or not but to want to charge you b/c they don't like the color of your fluid is just wrong. I would IMMEDIATELY talk to the GM of the dealership and complain about their desire to charge for something that has NO bearing on your situation.

[jicko]

That is CRAP! That is the equivalent of them telling you that your warranty is voided for using a higher than 93 octane gas. They are feeding you a line of crap and seeing if you are just naive enough to just pay it. I am not sure about the process to change out the brake booster and if it involves draining the fluid or not but to want to charge you b/c they don't like the color of your fluid is just wrong. I would IMMEDIATELY talk to the GM of the dealership and complain about their desire to charge for something that has NO bearing on your situation.

Good that I had their quote in writing.... (it doesn't sound right to me tho).... but it seems like it is the service manager speaking already...

It will require additional time to flush the brake system due to the non Porsche approved ATE Blue brake fluid. Porsche Cars North America, Inc. does not recommend using ATE Blue brake fluid. The blue brake fluid retains more moisture than standard brake fluid and should be flushed every six months. The blue brake fluid may cause internal brake system problems. Western General(extended warranty company) is paying for the standard brake fluid, but not the extra time that is required to bleed the system.

I really not sure about HOW to change the brake booster, but I do have the PET as well as the Technical Manual.... and as far as I can tell... there is no need to open up any brake lines, and there is no need to touch the master cylinder!! Unless it is something related to the TSB. And that is another $95 worth of parts.... (I don't even know if this TSB is absolutely necessary)....

The service contract will not pay for hardware. PCNA TSB # 4470 11/01 requires an updated brake push rod, bushing & pin when the brake booster is replaced. The service contract does not cover these parts.

[LVDell]

And why do they need to flush the system? And where does it state in writing that PCNA will prohibit ATE brake fluid? It is one thing to rec'd not to use something but a whole 'nother to specifically state that it is NOT authorized for use in the car. Guess what? Not everybody uses Mobil1!!!

Ask them what type of brake fluid is used in the cup cars? And why can't you flush your fluid every six months according to their rec'd for this fluid. I have used ATE in mar car for years and NEVER had a problem at the dealer.

Edited August 9, 2006 by LVDell

[jicko]

And why do they need to flush the system? And where does it state in writing that PCNA will prohibit ATE brake fluid? It is one thing to rec'd not to use something but a whole 'nother to specifically state that it is NOT authorized for use in the car. Guess what? Not everybody uses Mobil1!!!

Ask them what type of brake fluid is used in the cup cars? And why can't you flush your fluid every six months according to their rec'd for this fluid. I have used ATE in mar car for years and NEVER had a problem at the dealer.

Thanks for your support.

I just checked the Porsche 996 Technical Manual (WKD 483 721) pg 47-3, section "47 01 07 Bleeding the brakes", the ONLY thing they state there is

Use only new DOT 4 brake fluid. Observe brake-fluid quality.

which I'm SURE the ATE SuperBlue DO NOT have ANY "quality issue".

I think the key issue maybe... if the job requires flushing or topping off of the brake fluid system... they don't have ATE SuperBlue, and they ONLY have Porsche Super DOT 4 "Yellow".... then they kind of can't just top off my "blue" with their "yellow".....

[LVDell]

Supply them with a can of ATE then or tell them you will top it off and bleed when they complete their work.

Also, they have it backwards on the flush. The ATE can go longer than lesser fluids. Also, you CAN mix other DOT4 with it. Personally I wouldn't but you can.

[jicko]

Supply them with a can of ATE then or tell them you will top it off and bleed when they complete their work.

You know what... while talking to you... I went and check the whole "Removing and installing brake booster" section in the Technical Manual.... and it called for step "7. Bleed brakes in the conventional manner", if that is the case... then... there should be NO "additional time to flush the brake system due to non Porsche approved ATE Blue brake fluid"!!!!!! (and I didn't even complain that they wasted all my 1 week old ATE SuperBlue, and not replacing them for me!!!!)

:soapbox: I smell the same old "dealership squeezing every cents out of ill-informed customers"..... as you put it: "They are feeding you a line of crap and seeing if you are just naive enough to just pay it. "

[LVDell]

Exactly! Those stealership tactics really p!ss me off.

Edited August 9, 2006 by LVDell

[Loren]

ATE Super Blue is the exact same fluid at ATE Type 200 (which is clear to yellow). The properties are identical. ATE Type 200 is appoved by Porsche and Super Blue is not - go figure.

Changing out the brake booster is not a small job - because if you have an older car some changes have to be made to fit the newer version. The TSB and service manual say it about a 3 hour job. Perhaps you should look for an independent shop?

[Izzy]

Sounds like a load of crap. I have been using Super Blue for years, lots of track events. I swap between blue and Motul Gold every other flush because I like the easy to see color changes, ensure a full flush. Super blue is racing DOT 4.

But I do use special Porsche certified Bavarian compressed air to fill my tires.

Some dealers will charge you for changing the spark plugs on a diesel motor.

[jicko]

ATE Super Blue is the exact same fluid at ATE Type 200 (which is clear to yellow). The properties are identical. ATE Type 200 is appoved by Porsche and Super Blue is not - go figure.

Changing out the brake booster is not a small job - because if you have an older car some changes have to be made to fit the newer version. The TSB and service manual say it about a 3 hour job. Perhaps you should look for an independent shop?

Hi Loren,

The brake booster job is supposed to be covered by my extended warranty. What I can't swallow is that they want to charge me $115 for the "additional time to flush the brake system due to the non Porsche approved ATE Blue brake fluid", which I think is BS.... since according the service manual, after they install the booster, they have to "bleed the system" anyways.... so... bleeding out MY BLUE or bleeding out some YELLOW fluid take the SAME amount of time.....

My car is a '99 996C2... and I do believe that the TSB job is needed (I'm still trying to hunt down that TSB.... to see what exactly it is needed).... and my dealership is saying that "extended warranty" is not paying for the TSB work... which I think they SHOULD.... cuz there will be NO WAY to fix my brake booster(which is a covered part) if the TSB work is not performed..... so I'm going to try to contact my warranty provider (Western General, WG) and reason with them.

By the way... your estimation of time is dead on.... my dealership is quoting 3.0tu for the brake booster job(paid for by WG)... + they try to squeeze me for the unreasonable $115 "flush"... and $95 "TSB #4470 parts"

Thanks.

[Tom M]

What it's really coming down to is that the dealerships are taking a hard line on only using Porsche Approved products. My guess is it's to avoid liability issues. I fell into a similar situation on my Boxster a while back when the dealer had to go out and buy a can of Super Blue to top things off after they replaced a caliper under warranty. The reasoning (at least this is what I was directly told by the Service Manager) is that since the product hasn't been approved they don't know what problems it will cause years down the road. Go figure.

It's now gotten so absurd that some dealerships will only install Porsche Approved 'N' rated tires.

Edited August 9, 2006 by Tom M (Sunol, CA)

[LVDell]

they don't know what problems it will cause years down the road.

Like the warranty lasts that long :drive:

[Loren]

I'm still trying to hunt down that TSB.

All TSBs are available here for viewing by Contributing Members.