pk2

Fixed It !!!! (Not really sure how though) Poured over the wiring diagrams for hours, figure out where there should be voltages, weren’t there. Made some jumps here and there, got the voltages…still wouldn’t start. Checked all the grounds, O.K. Id had the Motronic computer thing out (checking pin assignments for sc install) couple days before, looked like I’d put it back correctly, took it back out anyway & opened it up, solid state, nothing to do in there but damage. Cleaned all the pins with a wire brush. Plugged the harness connector in and out a few times (helps insure good contacts). Buttoned everything in good. Twisted the key, resigned to the silence I’d heard so much of today…Vaarroooom!!! PK Such pros, not Hemingway but…

You are on the wrong forum but; blue smoke out the tail pipe typically is burning oil. Wear in your engine allows oil to bleed into your cylinders. Longer it sits, more oil seeps in, the more oil to burn. This could be valve guides or rings. Or maybe something else…I’m not familiar intricacies of these motors, these are just generalities Regards, PK

Forgot say it's jumped to, out of the equation (It does behave exactly like clutch pedal is out though) Thanks, PK

Hello, Before you say"battery" it ain't dead. Twisting the key does absolutely nothing, everything works, just doesn't crank at all. However, If I take the relay in the trunk out, jump the fat (YE & YE/BK) wire leads, twist the key and the starter cranks away but the motor won’t start. The two leads to that activate the relay show no voltage when the key is twisted. I had and identical problem when the computer under the seat got swamped (since been replaced) Took it out, opened it up and it looks fine. So does the starter relay (It's just not getting V. to it). And of course checked the fuse, fine. I always a make a point of pulling electrical connections on and off a couple of times to assure a good connection. The obvious choice is the ignition switch. But again, when I jump the starter relay, it will crank when I twist the key. According to my wiring diagram there is only one lead that is activated when the key is twisted to start. ALSO, the clutch switch is jumped, not an issue. This has been an intermittent problem while I've had the car up for mods. (nothing that is related to this circuitry that I know of). Ideas?? PK

Pretty sure its a hack. Google it. I know I saw it on a DYI page somwhere. Regard, PK

Thanks, I found out that there are conversion charts put out my fuel suppliers (including 76). There’s a couple posted in responses to a post of mine on PPBB with these tables. At first blush, my guess was right. 10 (91 oct.) to around 2 (100 oct.) will get you about 93 octane. There’s a product cal Octanium or something like that, that someone has some dyno number for. Apparently actually does something, takes about a bucks worth a gallon. Thanks for the equation though. PK

It’s always been my understanding that unless your using forced induction, using fuel with an octane above recommended will get you nowhere. Lower octane and the ECU will make amends to a point. Porsche says 93, mine runs fine with 91 (no detonation or anything) 93 would be better and a must when it’s super charged. Regards, PK

Hello, Need to boost our local So. Cal. 91 octane fuel to a min of 93 for my supercharger to work in a healthy way (like not blow up). Straight 100 I think would be an expensive over kill. Could I just create a ratio of 100 with 91 to come up with 93 or so? Done a little division (probably wrong), it seams as though a couple of gallons of race fuel with 10 gallons so of 91 would do or it. (If my principle is right, what would the equation look like?) As an alternative, are any “Octane boosters” worth a ____? None that I’ve seen make any numerical claims and though they claim to clean injectors, I’ve heard they gum them up. Thoughts? PK

Your transmissions are most likely out of sink and the probable reason is the cables are bad, You can tell pretty quick by looking at the drive cables emanating from the drive motor in the back, middle top well. If they are smooth surfaced (as opposed to a bumpy surface) they have an inherant weeknes, there are tricks to remedy it. Once that's done you'll need to resinc the transmissions, not to hard in that yours aren’t to far out but it can be bewildering on that yr, if you screw up. One of these forums either here or 986 forum or ... there's a whole section on this issue alone, lots of threads on everything related top problems. Regards, PK

Thanks for posting your picks, look’s sweet. Your right, visually I can see the difference in the offset from mine, 15-20mm is pretty significant. Looks like there’s plenty of room to spare. I was concerned about 12-15mm spacers and having tires rubbing the fenders ( BTDT.. hate it). Apparently you have Porsches blessing for up to 16mm, more is tuff on the wheel bearings (assume they are taking into consideration tire clearance too). Thanks again, PK

If your whine is indeed from the trans, damage is probably done and changing the gear oil will only arrest it’s progression. For what your spending, you might find someone willing to put it on a lift and wind it up to 86, and poke around with a tube (to his ear)…see if he can find out where the wine is coming from. Same with rattle Regards, PK

Pics’ That would be great. you say your have the same offset as 17’s Does that mean they are closer to the inside of rear fender? or further away (closer to the transaxle)? Thanx, PK

Really, 15mm, no rubbing on the fenders? THanks, PK

Hi, Andy body use wheel spacers on a stock-bodied Boxster. I’ve got stock 18” turbo-twist wheels with stock size tires, thinking about a stance that reflects some significant engine mods. Do the spacers add anything to handling and stability? What sizes are you using? Thanks PK

I might have the whole latch mechanism. PM me Regards, PK P.S. Do you have spacers on those wheels? What hapened to the question marks

THanks Jim, I'm battle hardend enough now that I think the rest of the install will be a cinch. I knew it was no coincidence. Forgot to throw into the “starter motor woes” equation that I’d removed the air pump in order to have better access to the SC plumbing from the top…and, inadvertently, the ground strap which shares the mounting bracket. Tightened it back on and away! Duh, Peter

Thanks for your input. It works! The problem is a bad ground connection from the body to the engine. I figured this out by running one of the jumper cables from the negative terminal of my battery to the engine block, turned the key and Viola!! Fired right up! The ground strap from the engine to the body should be pretty significant and easy to find and thus repair. Ought to be Thanks to all who shared this little saga, big relief to me. PK

Hey Maurice, 1st and foremost, figured my starter problem out!! “Pease in a pod” I ageed whole heartedly with your suggestions of bad connection. I was positive it was a bad and significant connection. I wound up running one of the cables off my jumper cables, directly from the negative terminal on my battery to the engine block. Jumped in, twisted the key and..varrooom! (Repeated a dozen times instead of pinching myself). It works. So, I just need to hunt down the ground strap from the engine to the body and heal what ever ails it. It’s got to be a big and fat cable to handle the current so it shouldn’t be to hard to find. But I digress, wrong forum. “mightaswell syndrome”…also known as “mission creep syndrome” I think. Glad to know it’s normal. Do they have acronyms like “MAW” or “MCS” to further validate this tragic condition? I like the old fashion Germans solution, my thirty year old gate openers us a similar device as its safety stop, to much tention and it stops the gate and reveres direction. Jporter backs up what I thought I read somewhere, that the motor keeps running briefly after the clamshell switch is tripped. Would have to happen in the controller circuitry. I don’t think this function applies to the closing process, but I dunno, just a feeling. You mention these workarounds and the suggested complexity of jporters hack. I admire his ingenuity & pluch but would rather find the source of the problem and its multitude of symptoms…Don’t want a hemophiliac covered with Band-Aids when a blood clotting agent would negate the need. Cycling back and forth; you probably know that if you open the top and keep the open button down (on our functionally challenged tops) the clamshell lands and goes up again, purely as a function of the transmission/motor continuing it revolution. Cycling, hmmm not sure of the of what’s actually happening, but if the clamshell is bouncing up and down, could be it’s twisting itself to a stop & hitting a current sensitive safety circuit which reverse the direction of the motor when the stopped motor starts drawing a ton of current trying to go. Like pwr. Windows. Looking at you’re the chart you sent, gotta give it a better study, My first blush has turned a bit ashen, I’m not so sure about my conclusions was right regarding the 2 switches acting in concert, at least not as I envisioned. I’ll probably nail it about the same time it thaws out enough for you to get your top down. I’m going to focus on that bum ground strap (no biggy) and wrap up that super charger…get back on the road. Optimistic eta, a day or two. Any way, seems we both had the right idea on my starter, bet we can do the same with the top! Regards, PK P.S. Is there money to be made here, fly in from both coast to fix some brokers trophy wives stuck cabriolet top? LOL

Marice, shut-up all ready, I've got work to do!(LOL) Anyway, Picture’s fine, thanks a lot! At very first blush it says to me that the b pillar and rear clamshell switches do indeed work in concert… somehow. Really do have to get to work, I’ll give your post a thorough twice over tonight, mean time I just posted a real rambler to a comment by azzar0 in this thread. Made it up as I went along but I think there’s some validity in my conclusions. Thanks again, Peter

You’ve made some very keen observations. You are correct that the stop could be accomplished either up or down with clamshell switch. However, by it’s position, it would be less accurate in stopping the top on the way up than it would on the way down. (I.E when the top is opened all the way, tripping the back switch doesn’t really matter if the top is a +/- a ½ inch or so for everything to appear ducky. If you use that same switch to align to the top of the windshield header that half inch (give or take) is going to be a problem. Furthermore, the top in the up position is cantilevered way out there, effectively amplifying that ½ inch of slop into an easy inch of play. Tripping a stop switch at the b-pillar, would be significantly more indicative of where the top is with respect to the wind shield header and could be fine tuned independent of the rear stop switch. As to the 2 switches working in concert, the b pillar switch would have to trip the stop function before the clamshell switch does or the switches would have to cancel each other out somehow (in the controller? All that circuitry in there must do something). Also, it’s my understanding that at least in the rear top down position, the motor continues run for a second or so after it trips the switch to cinch the clam shell snug (could be wrong here, could be wrong every where for that matter) As to toolpants statement that in effect, it’s all in the controller, true. But the controller can’t control anything accurately without feedback signals from something’s like…switches. I did get to swap out my controller for a known working one (saw it work properly right in front of my house) It didn’t help my problem at all. Furthermore, mine (relay) worked fine in his car. Anyway, thanks for the reply, am I being dickish enough in this reply… could be way off the mark, just my logic. Regards, PK

Hey Marice, I’m further waylaid by my starter problem (I think you’ve added your 2 cents somewhere). Funny, all I’d done was change the plugs and taken of a filter box duct (plus hung the sc on the motor, (no connections made though)). To make matters more comical, this whole odyssey started with a decision to refinish my wheels (then since the cars up & level, how bout change the gear oil, need a special torx socket for that, & hey, low and behold, there’s the bracket for the blower I started to install 2 years ago, lets reignite that flame, need new plugs for that...etc, etc). Tell me more about table on “61-6 of the Bentley manual”. What does it cover? I’ve wanted that manual but have been spending money willy-nilly while this project(s) spins out of control. Not in the budget One thing that might fit into the top equation, maybe, would be some interface to the computer under the drivers seat, might entail some programming by someone with a Porsche PS….bla bla tool. That computer has tentacles into a number of areas you wouldn’t expect, top might be one. I had mine (computer) replaced while the top mechanism was a mess…inoperable. Would explain my problem but not really yours in that yours is working halfway now through brute force. One thing I’ curios about; when your top goes down and stops itself, I seem to recall reading somewhere that the clamshell actually delays shutting off after the switch is tripped, for a second, to cinch down the clamshell down. Do you se any evidence of that happening? I just got to take a look at the wiring diagrams a bit, read some voltages, etc. Problem is, a lot of those wires disappear into the relay/controller with no explanation as to the logic in there, so I’m only guardedly optimistic that I’ll find the silver bullet. Anyway thanks, Peter P.S. Here’s a synopsis of my starter woes. I’m thinking more and more my problem is a corroded cable connection. 1) The convertible top motor, though not a starter, draws quite a lot of amps and it zings up & down without a hiccup 2) The voltage on the battery drops only about 2 volts while attempting to crank (not sure what that might mean, but my intuition tells me this is indicative of a fairly healthy battery). 3) The battery has only 2 yrs. on a 6 yr. type 4) The battery has not really been abused. In the 2 yrs. I’ve had it, I’ve probably only had to put a charger on it 3 or 4 times (inactivity or leaving the radio on for to long). It normally is back up and charged in less than an hour 5) It seems unlikely that I could pull the car into the driveway after months of perfect performance and have it catastrophically fail sitting in my driveway for just a week. (Running it down once by leaving the radio left on for to long (3-4 hours)). 6) Trying to crank the starter does little in the way of dimming the lights and the like.

Thanks for the reply Good questions all. First my DMM is flakey but it usually reads about 1 volt over (that or it’s off the map). A reading right off the battery right now is 13.8v, ignition on 13.6v, cranking position immediate 12.6v. drifting down to a stable 11.6v. if I hold it in the crank position for about 3 seconds. Don’t know if that is answer you were looking for. I don’t know if my meter is off by a volt or if its proportionally off. At this level though I don’t think it matters (could be dropping 2 v. or 1.8 v. on crank) . Ground straps are something I’ve thought allot about that. The obvious starting point is the one is on the starter itself. Pain to get at… If it were a corroded lead, would I get the same voltage readings (I.E. volts are there but the amps aren’t) right of the starter or would it read say 6v. Regards, PK P.S. Can you tell I’m a bit of a electrical noggin head with electricity.

Good ideas, but my origional post need some updating...changes the landscape; The starter is turning the motor veeerrryy slowy till it poops without a whirrr or grrrr. Twisting the key to start does clack the solenoid acompanied by a 1 volt drop measured on the battery. Thanks, PK

Hello, Before you say “new battery”, read on. This battery worked fine prior to current woes. Drawing it way down listening to the radio while I worked on it, it would recharge in about 20 mins. (most recently, about 2 weeks ago). And the battery is 2 yrs. Into a 6 yr. rating. (Also, cleaned battery terminals inside and out) Changes since it last ran; I am installing a super charger, the blowers in (not plumbed, just bolted in place), put new plugs in and removed the air box ducting (from the filter box to the throttle body) and a “J” hose (think it’s a case breather). The only other change was the weather, we got a little rain and a small amount may have gotten in the engine compartment. In short, nothing that I can see that would give me my symptoms. When I twist the key, there’s a healthy “clack/click” I assume is from the solenoid doing its thing. Holding the key in start position, I can see my interior lights modestly. But no cranking. (were it my battery, or the starter jammed I would expect to see the light dim a lot.) Mt immediate thought is the starter is somehow not getting any juice. Thoughts? P.K.

Thanks Maurice, sounds like you hit on another piece to the puzzle, I always thought the rear switch with the big arm on it seemed like an awful big target to miss, and, as you said, it doesn’t take much to trip the switch. So I never bothered with it, guess I ought to revisit it. As to the up position, gotta have something to do with the b pillar switch and whatever circuitry goes along with it, or at least it works in conjunction with something else…wonder if those “sensors” by the rearview mirror come into play for some reason (never understood what they were there for) Still fiddling with my Super charger. Wrestled and wrestled with it till learned in a very mater of fact way that despite TPC protestations to the contrary, installers regularly hack and mod the thing to make them fit and work. I really thought there was something wrong with my car. Turns out to be a somewhat poor design with poor execution. My car and I aren’t to blame for my bleeding knuckles BTW, do you have a remote on your key for the top, I do and it doesn’t do anything either. Hope when the normal functions are sorted out, the remote will fall into line… Regards, PK P.S. Ill get to gandering at those wiring diagrams for the top as soon as I get the SC square.