JFP in PA

It totally depends upon how much oil has gotten into the intake. We have pulled the throttle body off a car that was still smoking intermittently more than 1,000 mile after someone had replaced the AOS and dropped a bore scope down the runners, when we showed the owner what was still in there, he had us pull the intake and clean it. Not all blown AOS lead to severe oiling of the intake; it depends how bad the AOS was, and how long the car was driven that way. A car that had a sudden but recent failure may have only a slight amount of oil in the system, but even that can take a lot of miles to clean out. Thanx JFP. I would assume that if enough oil was introduced into the intake to cause serious trouble that the oil level in the crankcase would drop enough to be noticeable on our stupid electronic gauges. Might the best approach be to monitor your oil level closely? The combination of persistent smoking and an oil level drop should certainly raise concern and a flat bed ride. When the AOS totally fails and the vacuum jumps from 5 inches of water to over 20 inches, it can start pulling a lot of oil very quickly. And, as oil is not at all compressible, any volume larger than that of one cylinder head combustion chamber and piston valve relief volume (combined less than 100CC total) is enough to be fatal to the engine in one revolution. If that happens, neither the driver or the dash display would be able to react fast enough to be useful. So if it starts smoking, the safe bet is a flat bed. Thanx JFP, You should be a doctor. You have the hang of negating any risk. Now, all of my cars have smoked initially on start up. This usually clears in 30 seconds or so. How would you differentiate between this and pathologic smoking. Excuse me for being dim witted but I have never had a car do this to me (hopefully never). The car just starts smoking on the road?? How do people usually notice thay have a problem?? I have seen old cars that have a severe oil burning issue (bad rings?) and they puff blue white smoke most noticable at a stop. If I were driving along on the highway at 80 miles an hour and my AOS went what would I happen?? (other than hydrolock and bent connecting rods) OK, just about everyone knows that horizontally opposed engine designs like Porsche puff a little smoke now and then at start up; we laughingly call it "a feature of the car", and so it is. The difference is that when the AOS starts on its way out, the start up smoke tends to become more of a regular occurrence rather than the once in a while thing. The smoke also tends to become more pronounced at start up and lasts longer. When the AOS really gets bad, the smoke becomes a more frequent occurrence, usually at times other than start up, and very pronounced during high manifold vacuum (e.g.: steady cruise, downshifting as you approach a corner or stop light, etc.) when it can look like you are spraying for mosquitos, and sometimes accompanied by what driver's call a shrill squealing sound coming from the engine. These are definite signs the AOS is toast. In your hypothetical "driving at 80 miles an hour", the loss of the AOS would result in you not being able to see anything but white smoke in your review mirror. Fortunately, you can quickly check to see if the AOS is going away. The easiest test is to try and remove your oil fill cap while the car is idling (a high manifold vacuum period), if the cap comes off and the car's idle drops off or becomes rough, the AOS is fine. But if the cap is very difficult to remove (as sign of very high vacuum in the sump), the AOS is going or gone. A more scientific approach would be to buy a spare oil cap and a 0-30 inches of water vacuum gauge (about $25-35) and mate the two by drilling the cap to accept the gauge and using a little epoxy to seal them together. A good AOS would show about 5 inches of vacuum or less at and idle, a bad one would be more in the 20-25 inches of vacuum range. We built a couple of these for the shop to test every car we work on; you would be surprised how often we catch an AOS in the early stages of "buying the farm".

I would have to speculate on that as prices vary around the country, but I would think somewhere in the $150-200 (without PAG oil) would be about right.

Left in that condition, the system needs to be flushed out and start over from scratch. Too risky to do otherwise. You can drive the car with the system assembled and uncharged, as long as the system is switched off so that the compressor does not try to run at any time. I don't mean to sound discouraging, but with these systems there is one correct way, and an unlimited litany of wrong ways to do it. Done right, the system will run trouble free, done wrong it will be an unending heart ache.

I hate to answer your question by asking more, but in this case it is required. I also think once you consider what is involved, you may want to leave this to a pro. When the shop removed the condenser, did they somehow cap off or seal the system, or just leave it open to the environment? Did they remove any other AC components at the same time? Reason I ask is two fold: If the system has been left open for a prolonged period, you need to be flushing the remaining oil out of the system and starting fresh, which is going to require additional flushing tools and special solvents to do that step correctly, as well as access to a supply of dry inert gas (nitrogen is fine) to blow through the system after the oil and solvent are out, and both the solvent and oil are classified as hazardous waste, so they must be disposed of properly. If you can get access to the original 13 volume Porsche service manual set for the car, there is an entire volume dedicated to the AC system. When the system has been run, the oil is distributed through the various components. A full system oil charge of oil is 195+/-15 cc's, but once run the oil is kind of everywhere in the system hardware. You can also loose as much as 15-40 cc of the oil just by evacuating the system prior to recharge. Porsche has a chart of what amount of oil to expect to find in various items; in the case of the condensers, each would hold about 20 cc of oil (now you know why I asked if they touched anything else). You also do not know how much total oil was lost if the system vented in the accident itself. And the total oil volume is critical, so it must be correctly adjusted, or preferably totally replaced. You should also replace the system drier; these are single use devices and need to be replaced anytime the system is opened up by component removal. Once the system is back together, you need to pull and hold a high vacuum on it, both to remove any residual moisture and to leak test it before recharging. The system should take approximately 850gm of R134A to recharge. The Porsche manuals I mentioned earlier have charts relating ambient air temperatures to the temp of the AC coming out of the center dash vents that will confirm the system is operating normally, as wells as charts for the high and low side pressures at the same ambient temperature. None of this is particularly difficult to do, but it does require access to required tooling and technical resources that are often not easily found.

It totally depends upon how much oil has gotten into the intake. We have pulled the throttle body off a car that was still smoking intermittently more than 1,000 mile after someone had replaced the AOS and dropped a bore scope down the runners, when we showed the owner what was still in there, he had us pull the intake and clean it. Not all blown AOS lead to severe oiling of the intake; it depends how bad the AOS was, and how long the car was driven that way. A car that had a sudden but recent failure may have only a slight amount of oil in the system, but even that can take a lot of miles to clean out. Thanx JFP. I would assume that if enough oil was introduced into the intake to cause serious trouble that the oil level in the crankcase would drop enough to be noticeable on our stupid electronic gauges. Might the best approach be to monitor your oil level closely? The combination of persistent smoking and an oil level drop should certainly raise concern and a flat bed ride. When the AOS totally fails and the vacuum jumps from 5 inches of water to over 20 inches, it can start pulling a lot of oil very quickly. And, as oil is not at all compressible, any volume larger than that of one cylinder head combustion chamber and piston valve relief volume (combined less than 100CC total) is enough to be fatal to the engine in one revolution. If that happens, neither the driver or the dash display would be able to react fast enough to be useful. So if it starts smoking, the safe bet is a flat bed.

It would still be very useful to know what the codes are before going further.

It totally depends upon how much oil has gotten into the intake. We have pulled the throttle body off a car that was still smoking intermittently more than 1,000 mile after someone had replaced the AOS and dropped a bore scope down the runners, when we showed the owner what was still in there, he had us pull the intake and clean it. Not all blown AOS lead to severe oiling of the intake; it depends how bad the AOS was, and how long the car was driven that way. A car that had a sudden but recent failure may have only a slight amount of oil in the system, but even that can take a lot of miles to clean out.

JFP, just wondering. What would happen if you blew a bunch of combustible solvent into the intake before starting the engine, say ether. Could you not at least partially dissolve the oil? Once it gets down there the engine should burn it just fine. My car always smokes for about 30 seconds on start up. I was told this was due to oil residue getting trapped in horizontal cylinders. Problem with blowing solvent into the intake is that it has to collect somewhere, like in the cylinders where it takes all the oil off the walls, which can cause scoring, or it collect in the oil sump. Either way, not good Excuse me JFP I should have been more specific. Using a spray can of ether, spraying enough for the vapor to just wet the walls of the intake then immediately starting the car. Not spraying so much that a significant amount could collect above the intake valve. This is another one of those how fast is fast enough questions. Problem remains that the amount of oil that builds up in the intake over a relatively short time is considerable, you can wipe it off the runner walls with your fingers and can often find little pools in places. There have been instances where a blown AOS has actually sucked enough liquid oil into the intake system to flood cylinders and cause a hydraulic lock to occur which bends or breaks very expensive parts. This is why we tell people with cars billowing smoke not to drive them, flatbed them to the shop. So with the potential for this amount of oil getting into the intake, I think you can understand I might be hesitant to believe that introducing a spray into the intake is going to clean it out on an assembled and running engine. We do use spray cleaners on the intake, but after it is off the car.........

JFP, just wondering. What would happen if you blew a bunch of combustible solvent into the intake before starting the engine, say ether. Could you not at least partially dissolve the oil? Once it gets down there the engine should burn it just fine. My car always smokes for about 30 seconds on start up. I was told this was due to oil residue getting trapped in horizontal cylinders. Problem with blowing solvent into the intake is that it has to collect somewhere, like in the cylinders where it takes all the oil off the walls, which can cause scoring, or it collect in the oil sump. Either way, not good.

This does not sound overly well. While the lack of compression is most probably a mechanical rather than an electronic issue, I would not be running the engine and would get the vehicle scanned with a Porsche specific diagnostics tool (PIWIS or Durametric) to find out what codes are triggering the MIL. To make a long story short, if you have suffered a mechanical failure, the engine is most likely going to have to come out.

It is not at all uncommon for there to be residual oil and smoke after replacing a blown AOS. Problem is that over a period of time, a failing AOS can coat a lot of surfaces in the intake system with oil, which does not go away quickly. Some owners have had to resort to manually cleaning out their intakes to eliminate this problem. Not a fun job, but if the amount of oil is considerable, it may be you only option other than living with the smoke until the residual oil eventually vaporizes.

If it was installed by a dealer in 2009, it has the last design IMS bearing.

You can also use cheap and readily available "rattle can" underbody coatings or bed liner materials, which a flexible plastic spray on material that can later be stripped off.

my 997-2 turbo s is a 2011 model. I have reviewed all the 997-2 turbo tutorials and can not find an answer as to how to change the air filter [which I assume is easy] or how to change the coolant. Air filter: Open your engine lid. 1. Pull the air cover straight up (1 hand on each of the openings and just pull up gently). 2. It will reveal the air filter. Air filter is held in with 4 Torx screws. Unscrew and pull air filter out. 3. Replace air filter. Re-install the 4 screws, and reinstall the air cover. The coolant is a bit more involved. With the car up in the air, you need to locate the two small coolant drain plugs on the bottom of the water necks (one is seen in the top center of this photo): Once the plugs are out, you should also disconnect the hoses going forward to the radiators and up to the heater core so that they can drain as well. Expect to only get about 70-80% of the coolant out with a straight gravity drain; there are several places it can get trapped and simply will not drain from. Once all the coolant that can drain off is out, replace the plugs and hoses. Because of the complexity of the cooling system on this car, I strongly recommend refilling the system with OEM coolant mixed in equal parts with distilled water, and doing it with a vacuum filling tool.

Suggest contacting Charles Navarro at LN Engineering, I'm sure he will be able to help you out.

:thumbup: EVAP system problems are second only to girl friend/wife issues in terms of complexity and level of general aggravation............

There are multiple valves on the system, as well as pressure and vacuum sensors. It is designed to function as a closed loop that prevents vapors from escaping from the tank by capturing them in the activated carbon in the EVAP canister where they are held until drawn into the engine to be burned, and also preventing the gas tank going under excessive vacuum. Here is a simplified explanation of how it does this: http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/294

I assume you are referring to #1 in the drawing below: When #1 opens, it draws the vapor laden air out of the EVAP canister into the intake to be burned.

Hello EleCTriCT, I am sorry to have revived an old thread but I was just wondering if it is at all possible to do a maintenance interval reset (after oil change) without using a PIWIS-II or Durametric. Is there a procedure using button presses? I am specifically referring to the 2013 Panamera S. Not to my knowledge, you need either a PIWIS or Durametric software system to reset it.

The 991 uses similar jacking points to the 996 under the side rocker panels. The jack pad mounts accept the same pads we use on the earlier cars. I also have not seen anything "offical" concerning other ways to pick the car up.

Turn signal return issues are common in these cars, as are problems with the horn sounding without anyone pressing the horn section of the steering wheel. The turn signal return usually equates to replacing the switch in the steering column, so now would be the time to do the OBC four stalk replacement as well. These are the necessary parts to do the four stalk, the prices date back a couple years, so expect them to be a bit higher: 1) 996-613-219-10 EWC 4 column switch - $166.29 2) 999-650-513-40 Plug Socket (for wiring harness) - $2.86 3) 000-979-009 VW Wiring Set (5 of them) - $13.05 4) 993-552-573-01-01C Steering Wheel Switch Cover (additional opening for 4th stalk on Left hand side) - $6.06 I've also attached the DIY instructions if you want to try this yourself: http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=28311

This does not sound good. Most likely, something has failed and allowed coolant to intermix with the oil. Have the car flatbedded to a competent shop for diagnostics; do not drive it or even try to start it.

True about Craftsman/sears quality, but just the same: They are still better than the crap I see a lot of people trying to use from Northern and other "discount" tool outlets. Recently, I received a Sears gift card, and having no other real use for it, I ordered some tools for the shop (sockets, extensions, etc., nothing complicated or unusual). My first surprise was to receive a confirmation email from some third party fulfillment house rather than from Sears, and the second surprise was what was eventually shipped out to me. Instead of getting all Craftsman sockets and tools as I had ordered, some of them were from other suppliers (SK, Gearwrench) even though the entire order I placed was for Craftsman. Third surprise was that the tools that were Craftsman had very poor finishes on them, some even had peeling chrome. When I called the "customer service" phone number, I found myself speaking to someone who obviously was not a native English speaker and had no basic tool knowledge, which made the conversation awkward to say the least. Eventually, they did send out replacements for the tools with issues, which again were an odd mix of some Craftsman and other brands, and which again came from a non Sears location. In their world, apparently all 5MM 1/4 drive deep sockets are interchangeable. Sorry, but I cannot recommend buying anything important or expensive from a business that is run that poorly..........

Unfortunately, with Sears slowly "circling the drain", both the quality of their tools and their once ironclad warranty have started to suffer. I would be very cautious about buying tools for the long term from them as they may not be long for this world.

I'm sure they have the same collection of nuts and bolts.