Silver TT, these transmissions are not bad they are just not as good as the G50 made by Getrag. I have just finished a 1 and 1/2 year experiment using 5 different transmission oils in my car through all the weather conditions we have up here in New England and I will be posting a DIY on transmission oil changing including all of the results of this experiment. It took so long because I had to use all the oils in winter conditions and it took two winters to get them all in. In most circumstances but not all, Millers is the best and my personal favorite. But, you are welcome to chug along with PTX. That is why Howard Johnson's made 28 flavors.
A34735, when someone tells you something that is wrong they are full of it. I myself have been full of it on occasion. I am with you on the voltmeter but the water temp gauge is important. As you have noticed there is a lag between oil temp and water temp. This is because the oil is down in the sump where the water is hopefully not. Going the other way, if your car starts to over heat, under some circumstances you will see it sooner in the water temp
Wouldn't ever think of putting anything but the OEM PTX in the gearbox. I have first-hand experience with the damage this will cause. $6K for a gearbox rebuild, or you can buy a reman from Porsche for $10K (before labor). The OEM PTX is an oil which is unique in that it literally has properties that no other oil has. Using the non-OEM will cause wear inside the gearbox over time (some people notice right away, in other cases this can take many thousands of miles). A lot of things people do with their cars I think are obsessing more than anything else, but with this topic I know first hand that if you use anything but the OEM gear fluid, you're asking for trouble.
Silver TT, these transmissions are not bad they are just not as good as the G50 made by Getrag. I have just finished a 1 and 1/2 year experiment using 5 different transmission oils in my car through all the weather conditions we have up here in New England and I will be posting a DIY on transmission oil changing including all of the results of this experiment. It took so long because I had to use all the oils in winter conditions and it took two winters to get them all in. In most circumstances but not all, Millers is the best and my personal favorite. But, you are welcome to chug along with PTX. That is why Howard Johnson's made 28 flavors.
A34735, when someone tells you something that is wrong they are full of it. I myself have been full of it on occasion. I am with you on the voltmeter but the water temp gauge is important. As you have noticed there is a lag between oil temp and water temp. This is because the oil is down in the sump where the water is hopefully not. Going the other way, if your car starts to over heat, under some circumstances you will see it sooner in the water temp
Wouldn't ever think of putting anything but the OEM PTX in the gearbox. I have first-hand experience with the damage this will cause. $6K for a gearbox rebuild, or you can buy a reman from Porsche for $10K (before labor). The OEM PTX is an oil which is unique in that it literally has properties that no other oil has. Using the non-OEM will cause wear inside the gearbox over time (some people notice right away, in other cases this can take many thousands of miles). A lot of things people do with their cars I think are obsessing more than anything else, but with this topic I know first hand that if you use anything but the OEM gear fluid, you're asking for trouble.
+1 I have to agree with Silver_TT on this one. While some have gotten away with using aftermarket gear oils in these gearboxes, most have not. Problems have ranged from pronounced noise, to poor shifting, and actual mechanical failure problems. Considering the cost of either rebuilding or replacing these gear boxes, and the simple fact that the OEM lube is a full synthetic made to Porsche specs and not an API "GL" catagory, it seems counter intuitive to start playing around. The OEM product is readily availiable, not all that expensive, and works very well.
Take a deep breath. OK.
What makes these transmissions special is they are transaxles. The transmission and the hypoid final drive are in the same case. The transmission itself is the rather standard constant mesh synchronized transmission which Porsche was the very first to introduce in the 1952 356!! I'm sure JFP knows the deal well. For those of you who do not check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOo3TLgL0kM . The problem with the transaxle designs is that hypoid final drives generate a lot of friction and require heavier lubes. Syncromesh transmissions do not like their oil to thick or the baulk rings do not clutch correctly, they float. Revs don't match up and you can't get the car in gear. So, what Porsche did was spec a gear lube that is at the very thinnest of the SAE 75W90 range with a very high Viscosity index. The higher the viscosity index the less the oil's weight changes with temperature. The oils had to have a cSt less than 600 at 0 C. The first to meet that spec was Shell with what was then called Shell Transaxle. It is now called Spirax S5 ATE which you can get in 20 liter drums. Ferrari uses it in their transaxle cars. Porsche use to use it but then Mobil made a marketing deal with Porsche. Thus Mobilube PTX (Porsche TransaXle) was born. These two are the only 75W 90 gear oils that meet Porsche's entire spec. The problem with them is that they are very thin when warm. Why a problem you ask??
All of these transaxles have a degree of drive train lash. Individual cars better or worse depending on luck and the weather. My car is a bit worse in this department. Don't believe me?? Next time you have your car up, put it in gear with the e-brake off. Grab a rear wheel and rotate it back and forth. You will have between 5 and 10 degrees of free play. That is the lash. You can feel it when you drive. Rapid large transitions on an off the gas produce a "thunk" which you feel in seat of your pants. Drive with the window down. You will also notice a lot of transmission noise as say compared with an Audi manual. This stuff is what got me started.
Science and specs tell us what to do. An SAE 90 oil can have a viscosity of any where between 13.8 and 18.8 cSt at 100 C. PTX is 14.5 cSt with a viscosity index of 194 (perfect is 200) Spirax is pretty much the same. All the other oils except Millers are around 15.5 cSt at 100 C with a viscosity index ranging from terrible like Delvac at 140 up to Redline at 176. Millers is special because their EE Nano oil has a viscosity of 17.8 at 100 C with a viscosity index of 183.
These oils perform exactly as you would expect. With the exception of Millers none of the oils do much to soften the lash and quiet the transmission. Delvac is just plain stupid below 10 C. If you try to jam the car into gear you might score the dog teeth on your syncro rings.
Until the transmission reaches full temp, which can take a while, shifting with Delvac ranges from poor to worse. The other oils are OK if you live and drive in environments that are always over 15 C. But if you live and drive anywhere where the Temp drops below 0 C Stick to the PTX or Spirax with ONE exception.
Millers is an interesting British company that has been around for a while making lubricants for industrial machines. In the last decade they started getting into motorsports and recently started formulating synthetic oils with nano particles. These particles have been absolutely proven to lower friction by up to 25%. All the science is available on-line. The stuff is very expensive. The gear oil got me to try the motor oil which I now use.
Anyway, The Millers most definitely quiets the transmission enough so that even my wife notices it. It takes about 50% of the sting out of the lash. It most definitely shifts better when warm than PTX. At 10 C shifting into 1st and second get a bit stiff but then something strange happens. The other oils including PTX get stiffer as they get colder. Millers starts to get stiff at 10 C but then gets no stiffer all the way down to -8 F. Which is as cold as the car has gone so far. I have used Millers EE exclusively for almost 10,000 miles and everything is just peachy keen. The only things special about PTX other than its viscosity is that it is overloaded with very expensive viscosity modifiers which dilute the oil's friction reducing capability and Mobil has a marketing deal with Porsche. If you don't like marketing deals and you are paranoid about using other oils by all means go with the Spirax.
Glad you like it, but we have had customer's that had zero luck with it.
That is right JFP. They were using the wrong oil. The EE just came out. They were using the racing formulation which came out several years ago. It has a spec very similar to the Delvac. (yuk) Go to Millers web site and check it out. Millers made the EE just for our transaxles and the stuff is nuts. I have absolutely no interest in Millers by the way.
Did you disagree with anything I said above??
I can only go by the feed back I get from customers; and those that tried the Millers line had a lot of complaints,particularly about low temperature performance (shifting was number one, followed by noise), in very low temp conditions (0F to 10F) where the products was supposed to excel. Another common comment was about the prices they paid for the Millers, but that has to be taken into account with their obvious displeasure on how the product performed. I also do not know, other than from what they told us, which product's were installed as we were not involved in that end of the process. I have noted, however, that you seem to see multiple types of Millers products with rather confusing designations, almost as though Millers might be doing some kind of "private label" deal with certain distributors of their products, which can also make both selection and comparisons difficult.
One comment I will make is that we have tended to stay with the OEM Shell product rather than the Mobil version, and the Burmah TAR 21 for the early Boxsters.