JFP in PA

The paddles shed their wear pads for a long time before anything starts to go bad. Keep and eye on your cam deviation values, as long as they stay inbounds, you are good to go.

These can come from a couple of sources, the chain tensioning paddles have plastic wear pads on them, the engine also uses sealants rather than gaskets on a lot of surfaces, and sometimes there is a little bit of squeeze out the eventually breaks off and ends up in the filter. Not uncommon.

You are mixing posters and time frames, today's poster said: "mine's a 02 C4S with tiptronic tran...guess it's about time to change oil."

Depends upon the model and year, some do but others do not. And in this case, it's a Tiptronic.

You did not mention your year and model, but Porsche suggest 90,000 miles (`145,000Km) for manual gear box oil changes; that said, more realistically I would be doing it sooner at around 40,000 miles. As you are at 80,000 Km, or about 49,000 miles, you are in the window for a change. Strongly suggest refilling the gearbox with the OEM lube, as it is a rather unique full synthetic product which works very well.

Not uncommon, most dealers sell them at list price. Sunset Porsche, board sponsor, in Beaverton OR. These parts vary somewhat with model year and come in bags anywhere from ten to fifty units per. You can also find bulk quantities for some of these from aftermarket firms like Dorman Products.

We work on a lot of different makes and models besides Porsche, and just about every one has some items that are forever missing, break every time you touch them, or are only available on the dark side of the moon. They are "consumables" that often only cost a few cents each, are always going to get used, and nowhere to be found at 4 PM on Saturday; so you stockpile a small quantity of them. Usually, they are cheaper when purchased this way, and then they are always an arm's reach away when you need them. I really hate sending a customer out with his car, only to have to bring him back in three days later to install a fifty cent part; it inconveniences him and we actually lose money bringing the car in s second time.

Thanks for the reminder. I read some posts on the halving the angle. As far as I am aware, there are no notches to reference under the other plug, hence the shorty cam lock tool. The other end of the intake cam (flywheel side) would just point outboard with a single notch vs. the half moons to denote TDC on Bank1. Makes sense. I forgot that the 3 chains engine cams are like that. My point of the cam sensor (blue arrows) picking up the position of the INTAKE cam instead of the exhaust should still makes sense. That is, the sensor will pick up any exhaust cam deviation + any slop at the varaiocam chain and report the total. So it's possible even if your EXHAUST cam notches are perfectly aligned, there could still be slop introduced by variocam (due to worn saddles) that gives you a net deviation. Drawing1.jpg In these systems, there are several ways for the deviation to be out of spec, which is why you have to take it apart and look for something obvious, like worn pads, a loose chain, etc. Always a fun project............

Points well taken. I am of the opinion that if something seems wrong, (in this case the Durametric readings) it probably is. Will do the cam lock test over the weekend. Be aware that the cam can be in the correct position at rest, but out of spec running if the hydraulic tensioner system or shoe wear pads are bad.

From the very introduction of the ceramic bearing retrofits, LN Engineering has specifically said not to retrofit engines that already had metal shards in them from a failing IMS bearing (http://imsretrofit.com/bearing-already-failing/). And while a few have had success "flushing" the metal out with repeated oil and filter changes, they are in the minority; most engines retrofitted with metal already circulating in them typically fail after the retrofits. As you have a dual row engine, your best bet would be to go with the LN triple row option during the rebuild; this is the most robust system LN developed, and can only be installed during an engine rebuild. You next best option would be a fresh LN dual row; there are literally tens of thousands of these on the road with no signs of failures. As for the Pelican system, it is an OEM style single row steel single row bearing and a spacer, you would be replacing the most durable IMS design (dual row) with the most problem plagued design (single row). Somehow, that just does not make any sense, even if you are on a tight budget. JFP, IS the LN bearing sealed or open to engine oil? If it is sealed would you take the seals out?? All of the LN bearings are open to oil and the engine side, sealed on the shaft side, so they can be splash lubricated by the engine.

Just be aware that retrofitting HID's into non projector headlights, regardless of who manufactures them, is not legal in all states due to glare issues and the component's not meeting DOT specs. We are required to fail such installation's at inspection time, and they are a favorite ticket bait here as well. We also count such installations as 'deduct" items when doing a PPI.

Buy them by the bagful, they are going to break. JFP, I guess your reply says it all, I just doubled my order... Thanks, BTW:Do we have a first name for you? Anyone who is as helpful as you are I'd like to be on a first name bases. Thanks for your contributions on this website. Mitch There are some items we just buy by the bagful, simply because they are going to get used, break easily, or are hard to find in the aftermarket. This includes things like oil and coolant drain plug washers, under panel retaining fasteners, fuel pressure test port caps, and the rubber caps for the brake bleeders amongst others. They are not that expensive, and are going to get used, so we buy a bag of them and throw them on the shelf. And it is John.

From the very introduction of the ceramic bearing retrofits, LN Engineering has specifically said not to retrofit engines that already had metal shards in them from a failing IMS bearing (http://imsretrofit.com/bearing-already-failing/). And while a few have had success "flushing" the metal out with repeated oil and filter changes, they are in the minority; most engines retrofitted with metal already circulating in them typically fail after the retrofits. As you have a dual row engine, your best bet would be to go with the LN triple row option during the rebuild; this is the most robust system LN developed, and can only be installed during an engine rebuild. You next best option would be a fresh LN dual row; there are literally tens of thousands of these on the road with no signs of failures. As for the Pelican system, it is an OEM style single row steel single row bearing and a spacer, you would be replacing the most durable IMS design (dual row) with the most problem plagued design (single row). Somehow, that just does not make any sense, even if you are on a tight budget.

Buy them by the bagful, they are going to break.

Couple of points: It is very difficult, even with software, to envision what 9 degrees looks like. Second, the deviation is with the engine running, not static, so standing still it can look different than expected. The test you should try is to insert the cam locking tool with the engine locked at TDC, if the tool slides right in, the cams are fine, if it does not go in easily and bolt down without effort, the cam is off:

There are no factory magnetic plugs that I am aware of, but there is a company called "Gold Plugs" (http://www.goldplug.com/) that I've used in the past who will make magnetic plugs for you if you supply an example for them to work off of. I've used many Gold Plugs "off the shelf" items, as well as their custom program, and they make very nice units.

Problem with inspecting your current bearing is that to do it correctly, you need to remove it, and then it should not be reinstalled. You should also note that with all the thousands of properly installed LN bearings, I am not aware of any failing with just splash lubrication. There has also be considerable online dialog by Charles Navarro and Jake Raby about why using an oil feed source that not coming directly off the filter is a bad idea for the ceramic bearings. You might want to drop one of them a email to get the details before spending any more money.

At least the values are steady, which is a good thing. The next question becomes why the car is out of spec. Normal suspects (as mentioned) are the tensioners and chain paddles, including the ones on the short chain between the two cams, which are often the problem on the five chain cars.

JFP - Everything you stated makes perfect sense and is good guidance. I was wondering if you could you say a little more about your quote above. Thanks in advance. Sure, the M96 engine came in two timing chain configurations, the three and five chain. The earlier engines (before 2003), all M96 engines had a five chain layout on the cylinder heads where a chain came up from the IMS shaft to one of the two cams, and then a separate chain ran from one cam to the other: With the small chain running between the two cams, it is actually fairly difficult for these engines to jump cam timing, even under adverse conditions. On the later engine's, the chain between the two cams was eliminated, and the chain coming up from the IMS shaft went around both cams on each cylinder head, reducing the number of chains from five to three. The three chain design, while simpler and making more room for the VarioCam+ hardware, was more prone to jumping time (usually on one cam) under adverse conditions because the mechanical link between the cams was now missing.

Warmer lubricants will always drain quicker, but I don't think there is any definitive evidence that they drain more completely, although it would intuitively seem like they should. I wouldn't be overly concerned as when the car is in a shop on a lift, no special efforts are made; the oil stops flowing out, it is done. One word of universal caution on draining gear oils from transmissions and the like: Always remove the fill plug before removing the drain plugs. That way, you never find yourself staring at an empty gear box with no way to refill it.

OK, the spec for that car is +/- 6 degrees, so the deviation value does indicate that you are somewhat out of spec. If the engine had jumped time, it would be well more than 8-9 degrees out, so I do not think that is your issue, especially as yours is a five chain motor. I am also not aware of the Durametric software not being able to correctly read these values, but having said that, I need to ask what version of the software are you using? It is entirely possible that this level of deviation is the result of wear on the VarioCam components (tensioners, chain paddles, etc.). Before you start pulling cam covers off, you need to understand that doing so requires cam retaining tools as the cover is one half of the cam journals holding the cams in place. I think you need to have the cam system examined by a shop with both the equipment and knowledge required to properly access the situation. You are probably in the market for some replacement components and a retiming for the cams.

An 05 Turbo would have the Mezger engine in it, which is completely different from M96/97 design engine that suffered from the IMS issues. The 996 turbo did have its own problems with pressed and glued coolant hose connectors that failed often enough that some tracks now require that you demonstrate you have taken steps to mechanically lock the connectors in place before letting you out on the track surface.

If you are using a quality full synthetic oil, you don't need any additives.

No, we do not use jack stands under the plastic panels, that would damage the cover panels. I prefer to use the rear suspension pickup points for the jack stands.

SilverTT, there is absolutely no question that the most economical way to get a Metzer is by getting a 996 TT. The Metzger is a wonderful engine and time may show that it was Porsche's best. On the other hand technology moves on and there is a growing group who believe the 991 version of the 9A1 is fully up to snuff. The GT3 version is winning hearts and souls by the minute. The advantage of the dry sump system in the older cars was that it insured a constant oil supply under high lateral G's. It of course required the use of a separate oil tank which takes up space and adds additional plumbing to a car that has more than its fair share. It is entirely possible to design a block and sump to prevent oil starvation under any circumstance which is exactly what Porsche has said it has done. Which means there is absolutely no advantage in having a dry sump. I for one will be quite happy not to have to pull two drain plugs every time I change the oil. This years racing season will pretty much determine the viability and reliability of the new 9A1. Porsche is back in the field and staking its honor on it! As we mostly work on our lifts, jacking up the car is not a common event; but when we do need to, we put aftermarket jacking pads into the car's jack point bayonet fittings, and then lift each side with a floor jack, then set the car on jack stands with hockey pucks on the top to prevent marring anything. Jack point bayonet fittings?? Not sure what you mean. I can jack 1/2 the car easily by using the rear jack pad (with the centering hole) Then I stick an Esco jack stand under the front jack pad. I can't put one at the rear because the floor jack is there. I place the front Jack stand on the other side. Now the front of the car is up. I jack the rear from a center point (the 997 has a pad just for this) and place both rear stands. The back goes up real easy because it is being counter balanced by the part of the car hanging out in front of the front jack stands. The Esco stands are the best I have ever seen. They are big and stable with a large foot print and the top has a very nice round rubber pad which had to be made just for 911s. Pelican has them I believe.Sorry about the spelling. Mezger it is. JFP, wasn't the Mezger a hybrid engine using the aircooled split case block with water cooled cylinders and heads?? The engine with air cooled cylinders and water cooled heads you are referring to was most famous for its appearance in the legendary 959 street cars. As Loren mentioned, Hans was involved in just about every Porsche Motorsports effort during his tenure with Porsche, including the air cooled 12 cylinder cars, the F1 program, and the still born Indy car. There is even a book and DVD out about his years at Porsche and covers many of the projects: The jack pad I was referring to with the bayonet mount looks like this: And it fits in here: That is a funky picture. I can't quite get the orientation. The good thing is that there are alternative jack points on the 991. How many are there? I can use the floor jack with them and place the Escos at the usual positions?The picture I saw was a similar shot but with the oil pan/sump cover removed. This sump extension is just to give you more oil capacity? I have not seen the spec. Do you happen to know how much oil the Turbo holds? I've only seen one spec sheet, which said, " Replace engine oil, 7.4L for oil change, 10.4L for engine rebuild/new engine." There are four "designated jacking points", two (one on each side) just behind the front wheels, and two (one on each side) ahead of the rear wheels. The plate shown twists into these mounts so that it provides a large flat surface for the jack to mate with and have great stability. The jack stands them selves can be positioned in a number of places where there is sufficient structure. As I mentioned, as we generally have the cars on a lift, we use the plates as pickup points for the lift, which works excellently and never marks the car in anyway. The sump extension is supposed to add about 1 1/2 quart or so to the total capacity without causing ground clearance issues. There are several similar for the M96/97 engines.