RMS Leak

[Tool Pants]

I have been in the UK Boxster board for several years and I read the message board for the Porsche Club of Great Britian. Also the UK board Pistonheads.

UK owners are treated differently than US owners is my impression, starting with your 2 year warranty and our 4 years.

You may want to check these UK sites out.

http://www.boxa.net/forum/index.php?act=idx

http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/forum.asp?f=48&h=0

[n4das]

Thank you for that..

[WolfgangK]

My 2002 3.6 had some minor 'oil fog' between engine and gearbox (15tkm), but it did not drip yet.

I went to the local dealer who immediatly agreed to fix this. Both seals were replaced then. Unfortunatly this was not a permanent fix, as only 4.000 km later it leaked again.

This time they used the proper tool to find out that it is out of acceptable tolerance. Fortunatly a Porsche works guy was there that day and they agreed to swap the complete engine.

My dealer told me that the attendance of this Porsche fellow saved some paperwork, but the result would have been the same:

no new seal, but complete replacement, two more days in the garage to wait for the brand new engine, but no further discussions or costs.

I do not understand why Porsche in UK claims to be unaware of this well known issue?

At least here in Germany Porsche AG is very obliging and I cannot complain at all. The dealer was very supportive.

I heard of engine replacement even on high mileage cars which are out of warranty for quite some time.

If I were Dr Mahen Nadarajah, I would not easily agree to pay for a brand new engine, at least not without involving Porsche AG first.

regards

Wolfgang

[Steve Davies]

Hi guys, new C4 cab tip owner here......and now really worried about this RMS leak issue. My car is a 2003 with 18kms on the clock.....what should I be looking out for ??? I am living in Spain so not sure of the service quality here - any thoughts or members from this part of the world ??? I look forward to your replies. (great site).

[Tool Pants]

Strange. They just do things differently at some Porsche dealers in the UK. Here is another report, this time from Riaz on the UK Boxster board.

"Dropped the car off at Hatfield OPC this morning, they phoned earlier to cancel the loan car as it was not back yet, so the choice was no loan car or delay the RMS replacement. Went armed with printouts, they had not seen or heard of the feeler guage and the seal is NOT a new part, just the one upgraded four years ago. The car has been booked in for three days (tiptronic)."

He used the word feeler gauge because in a prior post I said the measuring mandrel was like a large feeler gauge.

If the crankshaft has moved then putting in another seal is not going to cure the problem. You have to either take the engine apart and realign the crankshaft, or simply replace the engine. I have never sent a report of an engine being replaced due to the RMS on a UK board. They just keep on replacing the seal, over and over.

I guess the English are use to cars that leak oil. :D

[Noor]

I bought a 2000 C4 in last Jan 2004. The car had a 20000 miles on it, however its engine was replaced along with the Clutch when the dealer took the car back from the lease. Engine was replaced due to RMS and off-centered crack shaft. So I got a the car with a new engine and the clutch. They also replaced tires for me as well.

Since then I have been driven this car for about 7000 miles. No issues so far. I also have a 2 year 100K Porsche Warranty that cover most things including all seals and engine in the car.

So I guess here is another case for a replaced engine due to a RMS leak and off-centered CS.

I am not sure about UK, but this has a smell of Class-Action against Porsche-US all over it.

I would collect stats, go to court if necessary, have them pay the Court fees, pull all the repair records world-wide and see what the heck is going on.

To me this calls for a TSB to replace the entire Engine with a new engine does not suffer from this design flaw, because this is exactly what this is.

Bad Engine Design by the top car manufacturer of the world.

Any lawyers on around.

Noor.

[n4das]

wolfgank

belive me i dont want to have to pay for my engine to be replaced. What i think that Porsche GB is failing to understand is that there is no issue as to their responsiblity but they continue to persist in the hope that we as customers give up.

The Porsche centre knows that i am a doctor on call yet they have not provided me with a loan car. My car still sits in their compound while they make a decision or they decide to have my car stripped to find the known fault. Wait for it i have to pay for this to be done. I am sure that the law stipulates that the ownes os on the manufacture to prove the fault was caused by me not the other way round!!!

All i can say is that if you know of a sensible guy in Porsche AG that understands the technical side as well as legal obligation then let me know as all i get from Porsche Gb customer service is gibberish about how i own a boxter and not a 996!!!

Edited July 2, 2004 by n4das

[n4das]

noor

Believe me getting any form of records from Porsche centres is like trying to extract blood out of a stone. Porsche centres here in the Uk deny there are any issues with the engine let alone pay for them to be fixed!

If there is anybody out there who can get these records that would be welcome

[Noor]

Once you go to court and make the case, I pretty sure Judge/Jury can ask for the all records and they will have to disclose them. US consumer laws are fantastic but I am not sure how they are in GB. Just going to the court and having them served the court papers, they will fix your car with a new engine and extend your warrantty.

Stop wasting time. Call them and tell them that they have 24 hours to fix this thing or your are hadding to the court and that you are serious. If they don't come thru in 24hours, go to the **** court and file a law suit. See how fast they fix the problem.

Noor.

[WolfgangK]

This is really a strange behaviour: 'Porsche centres here in the Uk deny there are any issues with the engine let alone pay for them to be fixed!'

I am a subscriber of the UK '911&Porsche' magazine and as far as I remember this RMS issue was also mentioned there a few times. Don't the UK dealers read this?

Most Porsche enthusiasts know about it, discuss it in forums worldwide and share their experiences. And they (try to) deny there is an issue at all? C'mon, do we need to tell the dealers what's wrong with their cars? Or do they try to fool you?

Why do they think Porsche created this special tool for? To play 'Airhockey' with it? Just for fun?

Can Porsche UK afford it to tread customers this way? :eek:

I slowly understand why independent dealers are so strong and widespread in your country....

If this happened to me I would immediatly jump into my car and drive the 20 miles over to Zuffenhausen to talk to these folks.

Wolfgang

Germany

[Hroussard]

So Wolfgang,

Maybe that's what we should ask you to do. Could you drive to Zuffenhausen and get an audience with someone who cares. Introduce them to this website and suggest they check up and read what their customers think. Maybe this is the time to get something going aspecially as the folks in the UK seem to have such a bad time getting heard by the Porsche dealers. They may end up with a class action that will cost them ALL or a sizeable chunck of their profits.

Has anybody thought about talking and discussing this with some car magazines like Autoweek, Car and Driver and the like and what about contacting JD Powers? does anybody have some contacts? These guys will be more than interested I am sure as bad news is always worth more than good news at least for the News Media. Such a report would take the Porsche quality numbers down overnight. Look what happened with Mercedes and their JD Powers rating. The cost to their bottom line in the USA must have been horrendous.! Look what happened recently when it was reported that Nissan in the USA made some bad products. 200 Japanese engineers have been flown out to the US factories to clean this mess up. It was in the news only a few days ago.

Gruesse!

HarryR

Carrera 3.4 1999 with 30K miles ( luckily without problems) but getting nervous about all of this.

[Tool Pants]

Why do they think Porsche created this special tool for? To play 'Airhockey' with it? Just for fun?

That is funny. The measuring mandrel does look like something to play airhockey with. Maybe that is why some OPCs in the UK do not know about it. :D

The Porsche Club Great Britian had a meeting with Porsche Cars GB on the 29th over the RMS issue. No one on the UK boards are holding their breath

In the UK Porsche itself now sells an extended warranty that covers the RMS. The cost of the warranty is more than the cost of a seal replacement. Apparently no other independent company wanted to insure it.

[n4das]

Guys,

What can i say its been 3 weeks now no loan car, everything and everbody at Porsche have gone quiet including my car! I had a letter from PGB informing me of my BOXTER that had blown an engine.....need i say more....

Has anyone got any contacts in the media not for anything else but this whole attitude defies logic. Also may be wolfgang should act as our man in Germany and go for a drive to the factory. Belive me i have thought of buying a ticket there.

Someone please tell me that Porsche as a company are not this bad

[Hroussard]

Guys, I sent an email out to Autoweek , Car and Driver and JD Powers with some information that may prompt them to have a look at the issue. Note however that, in general, these guys will not "bite the hand that feeds them" ie they will softpeddle these kind of issues. JD Powers may be the exception to that. Autoweek also seems to have some more interest because it is a weekly magazine and they have some advantage over the Monthly's because they can report stories and issues earlier of course.

If you guys want to do the same, go to Google, search for the magazines and send messages to their editor(s). The more the better.

HarryR Carrera 1999, coupe, no RMS leaks and hoping to keep it that way.

[n4das]

HarryR

Been on the case already. I have to agree with yor comments about the hand that feeds....

I think that only a small minority of owners access these forums, i really dont think that the Porsche loving public at large are aware of problems with engines

[percymon]

Might only be a short term solution, and only worth looking at if your faced with the RMS ill yourself, but Liqui-Moly sell an Oil Leak stop product designed to swell worn/ill fitting seals

www.liqui-moly.de

Under Additives, Oils, Cars

[n4das]

Percymon

I think that i am right in saying that the issue is not the fact that the oil leaks out but the fact the reason that the seal does not fit is due to the cylinder not being concentric. By fixing the oil leak you are not fixing the cause of the problem.

Correct me if i am wrong

[percymon]

Well yes, the root cause may be the cylinder not being correct.

There is only one way to amend this, but Porsche will not replace engines without trying a cheaper option first. We would be no different ourselves. Faced with £400 for a seal change that might work, or £10k for an engine change that isn't guaranteed either, which would you choose first ??

Whatever the issue, it is not one that can be resolved easily - if that was the case surely Porsche would have done something by now?. Even if only 1% of cars are affected, this is still a considerable number of 986s/996s.

[johnnys]

Well I finally got a new engine. My 2002 996 c4 had its first RMS LEAK at 10,000. I was very upset. This was replaced with no indication that this was a known problem. Then it went again at 38,000. At this stage I found renntech and realised I wasnt alone. It then went again at 46,000 (one month over the two year warranty) and was replaced again by a different tech. Then it went 200km later (at 46200) and at that stage I had the dealers backing and the service department as well. The porsche reps denied all knownledge of the problem. I provided them with all the details I had got from renntech and with the fact the service department refused to do another replacement I got a new engine. Porsche NZ were ither uniformed or under a gag order or incompetent.

I received a later version of the motor and have just realized after just going for a run that the oil pressure is running at 5bar at 2.5k revs instead of the 3.5 bar at 5k rev that its ment to anyone have any ideas ????? also there is a rubber pipe with a plug in it that is just to the left of the air intake that appears to lead nowhere. The service guy said that porsche told them not to worry about it how ever the new 2004 cars I am told have something attached to this pipe any ideas. My sevice dep is trying to find out what it is .

Edited July 13, 2004 by johnnys

[n4das]

Man you guys are lucky in NZ to get new engines!!

When will Porsche just stop with the "i never heard of the RMS issue" and just get on with fixing the problem!!!

I still have no car!!

[johnnys]

What about anyone knowing the difference between the 2002 engine and the 2004 engine they seem to have different bits on them ??????

[Loren]

There are small changes/improvements made every year.

Was there something you were specifically interested in?

[frenchy]

The fifth makes the charm!

I got a new engine this week, my boxster had gone through 5 RMS and 1 Intermediate shaft seal. So this time, Porche decided to give me a "new" engine.

Seals replaced at:

30K

38K

49K

50K

57K

Last time, they had to add an dye in the oil in order to "trace" the leak. I guess that it had leaked so many time that they needed a color trace to validade where it came from.

Hopefully this one will last.

The guys at the dealer (Keith and Dennis ) were extra nice (in spite the fact that I was... let say... not in a good mood... and I'm French... so you can imagine). So thumb up Steven's Creek Porche!

[stanmo]

I recently had my engine replaced under warranty due to the RMS issue. The part number is 996-100-996-VX and the description reads “3.6L 04- Carrera MA.” Is this a 2004 engine? What is the likelihood of this engine failing? Thanks.

[frenchy]

The "VX" at the ends mean that you had (like me) a rebuilt engine.

I do not know what they reuse, the the engine casing looks new aluminum to me...

Maybe the crankshaft is a "old one"....

Jeff, question for you: What is a "rebuilt" engine?