996 Gauge Cluster

[Dale Zelinsky]

Would the part number 996 641 213 20 70c have the dot matrix display?

Thanks again... :)

[Loren]

From what I can tell that is a TT/GT2 cluster for up to MY02. It was replaced (in the parts list) by 996 641 213 03 70C and then by 996 641 213 05 70C.

[Dale Zelinsky]

So it would have the dot matrix display then?

My understanding 996 Turbos have always had it....

What is the likelyhood that it would work in an 02 Boxster?

Thanks again.

Edited October 8, 2003 by Dale Zelinksy

[Loren]

The pinouts are all different as well as some of the onboard computers. Even if you could find the right pins I don't think it would work since your computers have different signals (functions).

[Dale Zelinsky]

Would I be better off trying to find a regular 996 cluster with the Dot matrix or am I in the same boat where I should just stick to the 986 display?

Edited October 8, 2003 by Dale Zelinksy

[Loren]

If your cars cluster is non dot-matrix then you could go with any with any non-dot matrix 996 or 986 cluster. The newer dot-matrix cluster (to my knowledge) will not work in the older cars -- as I said the connectors are 32 pin vs. 26 pin on the older clusters and the newer cluster use the CAN bus that does not exist in the older cars.

[Dale Zelinsky]

The (2) current displays that I have for my 02 986 have 32 pin connectors. (the change to the CAN bus happened in 01 for the 986)

From what I have read in the past, no one has tried to replace the non-dot display with the one that has the dot due to cost factor.

I would be suprised if the wiring harnesses were different for an OBC and non-OBC equipped car, but this is Porsche we are dealing with so anything is possible.

Edited October 8, 2003 by Dale Zelinksy

[Tool Pants]

Lots of info here and I'm not sure what is the question, so here it goes. :o

When I think Boxster there is the old style cluster and the new style that started in 2001, with the digital speed display on the left rather than in the middle. I used to call this the turbo style cluster since it also started in 2001 on the turbo - which is not correct since the turbo always had the dot matrix display but not the Boxster or 996. The new style cluster started in 2002 for the 996. As Dale said the new style has 32 pins per connector. The old style has 26. The connector to the back of the cluster on a new style is larger and there is no way to swap old/new style clusters.

The 996/Boxster dot matrix trip computer display only happens if you have a cluster with the 659 option. That option happened in 2002 on the Boxster, and I think the same year of the 996. I have done several 2002 and 2003 Boxster trip computer retrofits and you end up with a display that is like the 2001 Boxster with the 659 option, which means no dot matrix.

Per Peter if you put in a new style 996 or Boxster cluster with the 659 option in a 2002 Boxster without the 659 option you will get the dot matrix display as the software is in the cluster - not the car. With a 996 cluster then you have to deal with the 2 extra gauges and the surround.

Peter did not think a turbo cluster would work on a 2002 Boxster. But there is one sure way to find out - plug it in. Jeff

[Dale Zelinsky]

Ok I bought a cluster with part number 996 641 213 20 70c for my 02 986s. I should have it on Friday. I will let you know how it turns out.

Wish me luck!

[Tool Pants]

Nice to have a guinea pig. Take lots of pictures.

I just spoke to parts and the 20 in the part number is in fact superseded by 05 like Loren said. List is $1267. It is for a GT2 per the computer, and there are no option codes. Hope you do not need the tip shift indicators.

Hope it works but a C4 AWD cluster has a fuel level problem with a C2 or Boxster cluster.

I wish you luck. If it works then you need to modify the Boxster surround for the width of the 2 extra guages, or buy the surround and matching dash cap from a 996. Jeff

[Dale Zelinsky]

Mine is a stick so I am ok with the lack of gear indicators.

What's the problem with the fuel gauge? I wouldn't mind if it showed lower than it should.. The other way could be problematic...

Do you know of a cheap place to pick up a surround?

Thanks

Edited October 8, 2003 by Dale Zelinksy

[Tool Pants]

Hint. You should say this is what I have. This is what I want to do. None of us can guess.

I have this year car with these options. Since I am not sure I could guess all day long like ppbb.

You can put a AWD cluster on a C2/Boster, but the fuel level will not be accurate. The gas tank is different.

Pictures for the non tip inclined.

[Dale Zelinsky]

Ok what I am asking is when I put the TT gauge cluster on my 02 MT 986S how will the fuel gauge respond? Report high, Report low, not work at all.

I guess I am not sure what I failed to mention.

Edited October 9, 2003 by Dale Zelinksy

[Tool Pants]

Sorry, but I though you saw this. http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?s...st=0entry1790 You will run out of gas when the gauge says there is fuel in the tank . That is the way it is when you put a C4 cluster in a C2 or Boxster. My guess is that you will face the same problem with a GT2/Turbo cluster.

I will cross my fingers and hope it works for you, since no one has done this. If it works then there are 2 ways to put such a cluster in a Boxster. Jeff

[Dale Zelinsky]

Sorry I didn't see that.... Do you know if that is true of the new clusters too or just the old style?

There is probably something obvious I am missing but, if it is a problem, couldn't I drive with my original 986 cluster until I am almost out of gas, swap clusters and physcially move the need so it says E and then fill up and see what happens?

Just a thought...

(hopefully that will be the least of my problems)

Edited October 9, 2003 by Dale Zelinksy

[Tool Pants]

I would have to think about repositioning the needle due to the low fuel warning light. When the chip in the cluster thinks the level is low and turns on the light it does not care where the needle is pointing.

If you were putting in a 996 cluster from a C2 this would be a fairly easy project, but I will cross my fingers on a turbo cluster. If it powers up after you plug it in take lots of pictures. I assume you have the OBC stalk so see if the displays work. With the style 996 cluster on an old style cluster Boxster everything will work as soon a you turn the key on except the oil pressure gauge, as you need a 996 sender unit and an extra wire from the sender to the cluster.

For the surround you machine the Boxster one for the additional 2 gauges, or you buy a surround and dash cap from a 996. A 996 surround does not fit a Boxster dash cap - plus on a 996 the dealer does not sell the surround as a separate part. Find out if the turbo cluster works first and then I can give you the details on how to install it. Jeff

[Dale Zelinsky]

Yeah I understand that physically moving the gauge would not have the computer on the same page, but it might be enough of an indicator.....

I have the switch method of the OBC hack done so I should be able to scroll something atleast... I might just add a 2nd switch (instead of the stalk) if it works because I have enough money tied into this **** thing as it is... :)

Should be here tomorrow... I will try it as soon as I get it and report back.

Edited October 9, 2003 by Dale Zelinksy

[Dale Zelinsky]

It just came in and it seems to work well!! (I only have the Single switch for the OBC hack so I can't do everything yet)

I don't have any pictures as of yet.

1. I need to figure out how to neatly file down my current surround to fit in the two extra gauges. (I am still trying to figure out how to remove the darn connector for the hazard light switch)

2. I am going to put my silver 986S gauges on the new cluster.. That should be easy. (Hopefully it won't look dumb with the two black out gauges)

3. Add the second switch for the OBC hack.

4. Get the dealer to program the gauge. Is there a charge for this typically?

[Dale Zelinsky]

This is the cluster I bought with the nice cracked glass.

How hard would it be to move the glass off my old cluster or find a sutible replacement?

Maybe I am better off removing the volt / oil pressure of the new cluster and shove the components in the old one?

[Dale Zelinsky]

Two things I have noticed so far:

1. the seatbelt indicator doesn't seem to work (oops it appears it never have worked)

2. the convertible top in motion indicator doesn't work

Pictures coming soon.

Jeff: I called the dealer to see how much the mileage programming would be and they said $90.. Does that sound right to you? Seems a little steep.

Edited October 11, 2003 by Dale Zelinksy

[Tool Pants]

Lots of questions. The plastic lense can be replaced but it is glued on so it is a pain. I did take one off. Worry about that later.

Would have to look at the Turbo 2001 instrument cluster wiring diagrams for the seat belt light and compare to the 2002 Boxster. Have the 2001 turbo and the 2001 Boxster wiring diagrams, but not 2002 Boxster. Doubt if 2001 and 2002 Boxsters changed the wires to the cluster. One of the local EE guys will have to take a look at the diagrams as it give me a headache when I look at them.

Top in motion must be spoiler indicator?

As for the mileage if you have a zero mileage Turbo cluster. Do not put on more than 62 miles if that function works, or it is locked and cannot be changed with the PST2, but there is the aftermarket. Our local technical advisor did not charge when a 2002 2.7 owner put in a new Boxster S cluster and the miles were set forward from 0 to the actual miles. But I can understand any dealer charging for this service.

[Dale Zelinsky]

It turns out the seatbelt indicator is a problem with the latch itself. If I jiggle the latch just right it will come on.....

At this point I removed the Volt and Oil pressure gauges and just used the old boxster glass...

I do get an error on startup that there is a problem with the oil pressure sender. Is there anyway to bypass this other than install the right sender?

[Tool Pants]

Due to the angle of your picture I can only see 175mph. A turbo/GT2 cluster reads to 200mph. What cluster is in the picture?

[Dale Zelinsky]

It is just the angle of the picture... I does read to 200....

You can see the 2 in 200 just below the 5 in 175.

[Tool Pants]

Where are the pictures. You are paving new ground and beyond what I know about a 996 cluster in a Boxster. I will ask Peter if there is enough detail.

Also need to see a picture of the error on startup.

Finally compared the 2001 Boxster and Turbo cluster wiring diagram and was suprised to see not much difference. The software is another matter.