M960 engine S/N decoding?

[Orient Express]

I am interested in understanding what an engine serial number says about that engine. Can anyone provide the field breakdown?

Here are 2 actual S/Ns what do they mean?

M960366212866

M9603AT66565082

[Loren]

Engine Numbers

...and before you ask ;) Transmission Numbers

[Scouser]

Engine Numbers

...and before you ask  ;) Transmission Numbers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Loren I could knock up an engine decoder if you want using this info.

[Loren]

Loren I could knock up an engine decoder if you want using this info.

That would be great! :clapping:

[Orient Express]

M960366212866

M9603AT66565082

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, I worked from right to left, and this seemed to work. It looks like the model year is a number instead of a letter.

But what do the leading characters mean? ie. M960, and on the second example M960AT.

[Loren]

Maybe this helps...

[Scouser]

OK I will get to it. Any other info you can send me Loren would help.

Stay tuned.

[umn]

...

M960366212866

M9603AT66565082

...

Hmm, did your car get a new engine? As Loren pointed out, the first number is in the normal format and seems to be a MY 2002 engine. The second one i've never seen, but it would look like at MY 2005 engine. "AT", which is not the formal format, might stand for "Austausch", which means "rebuild" engine. Just a wild guess, because in the old days rebuilds would just have an "X" added to the engine number.

If it is really important to you for your concours stuff, send me a PM and I'll find out for sure in the factory in Stuttgart. I'll be there next time in two weeks' time.

Cheers,

Uwe

Edited June 10, 2005 by umn

[Loren]

OK I will get to it. Any other info you can send me Loren would help.

Stay tuned.

Berny,

What models? 986/987 Boxster, 996/997 Carrera, GT2, GT3, TT and Cayenne would be nice... but if you want to do all Porsche models that will be a BIG project.

[Tool Pants]

I took a picture of the medical report for Gary's old engine today.

[JimPDX]

I took a picture of the medical report for Gary's old engine today.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Toolpants...

What do the numbers mean? Seal bore? Concentricity? Obviously out of round?

thx...

Jim

[Tool Pants]

Well, since I know Gary, the owner of the car, and Peter the shop foreman who replaced his engine, and Dennis who is the director of service and parts at Stevens Creek Porsche.....

And since Gary has plastered the message boards with pictures of his old and new engines. But not on RennTech.org. :P And he picked up his car yesterday. And since his pictures had the Snap-On roll-aways used by mechanics Peter and Manny who work at Stevens Creek Porsche in the background. I knew where to look for his sheet.

And since Gary took 1/2 hour away from our tech session at Stevens Creek in April so that his Q-tip session could start at 10:00 am. :angry:

And so....

I will let Gary explain. :blink:

[Orient Express]

What do the numbers mean? Seal bore? Concentricity? Obviously out of round?

thx...

Jim

Jim:

The picture shows the measurements from the outside surface of the crankshaft/flywheel mounting flange to the inside of the crank opening in the case. Take 4 measurements and the difference can be no more that .30. In my case the variance between the top and bottom of the case was .36. If it is more than .30, then replace the engine.

Thanks to the court complainer & service bay stalker for letting me clarify this.

:clapping:

[Scouser]

OK I will get to it. Any other info you can send me Loren would help.

Stay tuned.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Berny,

What models? 986/987 Boxster, 996/997 Carrera, GT2, GT3, TT and Cayenne would be nice... but if you want to do all Porsche models that will be a BIG project.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes I agree a huge project. The above is a good start. I will leave the program open for updates if other info comes in much like the vin decoder. That way I can add model data as I get it. Still it's going to take some thought. One issue is testing data. For the Vin decoder I collected over 10,000 VIN's from scouring the internet. Mostly from dealer sales websites. I am going to need a fair bunch of varied engine numbers to test with. Not 10,000 but certainly a few hundred. Probably ask people to try it and send me the results. Anyway, the above list of cars is a good start so any info on these you have would be great.

Cheers

[Tool Pants]

Thanks to the court complainer & service bay stalker for letting me clarify this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, so now I'm going to tell all the concours judges that you do not have the original engine so you will lose points. :P

Peter left greasy finger prints on the replacement engine just so you would have something to do this weekend.

I hope the PCNA warranty test center in Atlanta looks at your original engine before it is sent back to Germany. Since it is so clean maybe they will mount it on a stand and put it in the lobby.

[JimPDX]

What do the numbers mean? Seal bore? Concentricity? Obviously out of round?

thx...

Jim

Jim:

The picture shows the measurements from the outside surface of the crankshaft/flywheel mounting flange to the inside of the crank opening in the case. Take 4 measurements and the difference can be no more that .30. In my case the variance between the top and bottom of the case was .36. If it is more than .30, then replace the engine.

Thanks to the court complainer & service bay stalker for letting me clarify this.

:clapping:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thx for the explanation. Got it...

Jim

[Sheriff John]

Hey Mr. Orient Express,

Did you ever get a clear explanation on your motor SN? My replaced motor (on my 2002) has the same number, less, of course, the last 5 digits. What I've figured out from going over numerous posts is that:

M96/03 = 3.6

AT = Factory Rebuild

665 = 6 cyl, normally aspirated, 2005

My last 5 digits is 66836 which is 1,754 units higher than yours.

Is this your understanding too? The dealer replaced the 3.4 with a 3.6? I haven't checked to see what DME unit I have. A post says that a 3.4 motor needs version 5.2.2 and a 3.6 motor needs a 7.8 version. What do you have? How do I find out which DME do I have? (I'll search this site for the info too)

Now to the IMS bearing. The best I can tell is that this motor has a larger, non serviceable bearing. (only disassembly can replace) Now that it's 2011, what's the word on this bearing? Is it holding up? Any failures on this bearing. Hopefully, this should be a good fix by Porsche. I can't really worry about replacing it especially if I have to tear down the motor to replace it. That's not going to happen!

Lastly, How is this motor working out for you? For me, it's a good strong engine, but it has two quirks. 1. cold idle is rough, but after 2 blocks it is just fine. 2. There is a slight hesitation at about 3,400 RPM. It's every time, like clockwork.

Any one can help out too!

Thanks for the help!

SJ

[logray]

...M96/03 = 3.6 ... AT = Factory Rebuild ... 665 = 6 cyl, normally aspirated, 2005 ... My last 5 digits is 66836 which is 1,754 units higher than yours.

The best I can tell is that this motor has a larger, non serviceable bearing. (only disassembly can replace) Now that it's 2011, what's the word on this bearing? Is it holding up? Any failures on this bearing. Hopefully, this should be a good fix by Porsche. I can't really worry about replacing it especially if I have to tear down the motor to replace it. That's not going to happen!

If you had a 2002 car you had a 3.6L already. And it has Motronic 7.8 which is compatible with any 2002-2004 engine (and rebuilt replacements after that). To find your DME version for certain you need a Durametric, PST2, or PIWIS, but based on your MY info it is a 7.8.

Yes unserviceable bearing without total engine teardown. I haven't heard/read of any failures yet. It has similar load rating to the original dual row, but not as high rating as the LNE ceramic replacement. Of course the new Porsche engine design for the 911 does not have the IMS bearing in it at all.

Edited September 23, 2011 by logray

[Sheriff John]

Thanks Logray!

You are correct, the 2002 has always been a 3.6!

Is the 2005 the last year that this motor was built using the IMS bearing? I'm guessing that's so because of the new body changes in 06 and that my engine was replaced in 07 and my rebuilt motor's S/N indicates a 05.

Thanks again for every one's help!

SJ

[Loren]

Bearing changes happened in mid model year 2006. Porsche has not shared any serial number or VIN info on exactly when.